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Peter Grimes
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« on: 10:49:45, 04-08-2008 » |
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"On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog."
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harmonyharmony
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« Reply #1 on: 10:53:52, 04-08-2008 » |
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without vibrato, an obscure and extreme performance style that lends an icy tone to music In the Seventies, however, Norrington led a movement claiming that vibrato was a modern fashion introduced at the turn of the century. 'Hearing this Romantic music played without vibrato tore my heart out. Norrington calls this a "fresh" approach, but you can call anything "fresh" and it is still disgusting,' said Raymond Cohen, a professor at the Royal College of Music who has led most of the leading chamber orchestras in Europe, as well as the Royal Philharmonic, the Philharmonia and the London Symphony. |
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'is this all we can do?' anonymous student of the University of Berkeley, California quoted in H. Draper, 'The new student revolt' (New York: Grove Press, 1965) http://www.myspace.com/itensemble |
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #2 on: 11:12:58, 04-08-2008 » |
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Continuous vibrato has been advocated from some quarters since at least the mid-18th century (when Geminiani wrote about it in his treatise - or at least that's one way to interpret what he said; I haven't studied it in detail). And the use of it varied from region to region in the intervening time - most evidence we have suggests that continuous vibrato didn't become the norm until about the 1930s (though, for example, the cellist David Popper was using it from about the 1860s). I'm interested to know the basis on which Norrington makes his decisions - we have recordings of Elgar conducting (I don't know them, though), are they really so totally vibrato-free? Not that the question of whether something concurs with historical practice is the primary arbitrator - but Norrington does tend to make his case in that way.
On the other hand, the 'vibrato at all costs', those who say the sound of strings playing non vibrato is simply 'unmusical' (or 'hideous', 'awful', 'f***ing ...', like Pinchas Zuckerman) - and there are many more of that view than of the Norrington's type of non vibrato absolutism - are every bit as fanatical.
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
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Eruanto
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« Reply #3 on: 11:14:56, 04-08-2008 » |
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we have recordings of Elgar conducting (I don't know them, though), are they really so totally vibrato-free? Indeed they are not vibrato-free, and so Norrington was forced to admit in his talk before the concert. Bit of a weak link for him there...  |
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"It is not our part to master all the tides of the world, but to do what is in us for the succour of those years wherein we are set"
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Lady_DoverHyphenSole
Gender: 
Posts: 63
Warning: armed with a stout hatpin or two!
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« Reply #4 on: 11:22:28, 04-08-2008 » |
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I look forwad to the BBCSO switching to gut strings for Rule Britannia, as performed by that star soprano, Bryn Terfel  |
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« Last Edit: 11:34:30, 04-08-2008 by Lady_DoverHyphenSole »
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RuthElleson: "Lady_DHS is one of the battiest people I know"
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perfect wagnerite
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« Reply #5 on: 11:22:41, 04-08-2008 » |
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Ah, but part of Norrington's argument was that styles of playing had changed between the first performance of Elgar's First Symphony in 1908 and Elgar's own recordings of the work. Besides, Norrington does not advocate a complete ban on vibrato; only that it should be used sparingly, as an expressive device. How much is used is obviously a judgement for the performer.
Having followed the splutterings at TOP over what I thought was a refreshing, powerful and moving performance of Elgar's Symphony, which rescued the work for music from the usual nationalistic tropes, I'm afraid I find the idea of Norrington performing a vibrato-free Pomp and Circumstance No 1 as part of the Cameronite banalities of the last night really very amusing.
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At every one of these [classical] concerts in England you will find rows of weary people who are there, not because they really like classical music, but because they think they ought to like it. (Shaw, Don Juan in Hell)
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Eruanto
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« Reply #6 on: 11:28:52, 04-08-2008 » |
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Ah, but part of Norrington's argument was that styles of playing had changed between the first performance of Elgar's First Symphony in 1908 and Elgar's own recordings of the work. In that case, why did playing styles change at that time in history, so comparatively rapidly compared to the centuries previously which had negligible vib? |
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"It is not our part to master all the tides of the world, but to do what is in us for the succour of those years wherein we are set"
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #7 on: 11:29:41, 04-08-2008 » |
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But will we, do you think, have RULE, BRITANNIA (from ALFRED) by Thomas Augustine Arne [March 12, 1710 – March 5, 1778] without vibrato?  Now that is the Charter, the Charter of (etc etc) |
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
- Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
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Philidor
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« Reply #8 on: 12:11:17, 04-08-2008 » |
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Having followed the splutterings at TOP over what I thought was a refreshing, powerful and moving performance of Elgar's Symphony, which rescued the work for music from the usual nationalistic tropes, I'm afraid I find the idea of Norrington performing a vibrato-free Pomp and Circumstance No 1 as part of the Cameronite banalities of the last night really very amusing.
Ditto. There's the promise of high comedy: a Wobbler's strike, the UKIP national executive committee ejected by stewards, tweedy pickets outside the Albert Hall waving the memsahib's vibra... [quite enough of that. Ed.]  |
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #9 on: 13:49:00, 04-08-2008 » |
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
- Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
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Philidor
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« Reply #10 on: 14:11:40, 04-08-2008 » |
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #11 on: 03:43:20, 05-08-2008 » |
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reducing the sound of his orchestra to that of a bad amateur performance, producing a sound often referred to as "grade three failed". All discussion of things historical aside, if that's what happens when a string player stops using vibrato then neither their left hand nor their right hand are doing what they should be. |
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Gnu2
Posts: 6
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« Reply #12 on: 10:25:11, 07-08-2008 » |
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I'm just looking forward to seeing how the BBC Singers will get on with RN's vibrato-free policies.... Or maybe I'm not . |
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