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Author Topic: Prom 63 - Beethoven, Sibelius  (Read 324 times)
George Garnett
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« on: 23:10:58, 01-09-2008 »

I missed the Beethoven, silly me, so will have to catch up later but thought that was a just glorious performance of Sibelius No 2 by the Gustav Mahler Jugendorchester under Colin Davis. Superb playing all round (OK a couple of tiny fluffs but who cares) and what a string section! Full blooded committed stuff paced and articulated beautifully by Davis I thought. And delightful to see the mutal affection and rapport between him and the orchestra.

Look forward to reports from the lucky ones who were there in the hall.
« Last Edit: 23:23:34, 01-09-2008 by George Garnett » Logged
Ron Dough
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« Reply #1 on: 23:14:22, 01-09-2008 »

01:50 BBC4 tomorrow morning, GG.
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Ruth Elleson
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« Reply #2 on: 23:32:26, 01-09-2008 »

It was pretty magnificent (from the front row).  I did get frustrated with it not being together in parts of the latter two movements, and I did also wonder whether the double bass players - all TWELVE of them - really had to fling themselves around quite so much. But all in all a terrific performance of one of my favourite symphonies.

As for the Beethoven, I found my attention wandering during the first movement, but the world stood still during the second (may a thousand plagues be visited upon the idiot whose mobile went off during the first bar of the slow movement Angry) and the third had loads of vigour and vitality. I really enjoyed it a lot.
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Oft hat ein Seufzer, deiner Harf' entflossen,
Ein süßer, heiliger Akkord von dir
Den Himmel beßrer Zeiten mir erschlossen,
Du holde Kunst, ich danke dir dafür!
IgnorantRockFan
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« Reply #3 on: 09:46:59, 02-09-2008 »

This is probably the best programme of the Proms so far for me -- two of my favourite pieces of music in one evening! And I was out for most of the evening  Sad

I listened to the Beethoven on the train and unfortunately the noisy environment drowned out a lot of the subtleties. But what I heard was very good. How can "youth" orchestras possibly be so good?  Shocked  I seem to recall it was the young orchestras that gave the best programmes last year, too (EU Youth Orchestra (Sibelius 5), and the South Americans, of course...)

I have the whole Prom recorded so I'll be able to listen properly, as soon as I find time.

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Allegro, ma non tanto
HtoHe
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« Reply #4 on: 10:22:15, 02-09-2008 »

Slightly dissenting opinion here.  I joked to my companions after the Prom that it was a coincidence the programme listed both pieces as being of 45 min duration because, for me and a couple of others sitting near me, it was a 'Prom of two halves'.  I thought the Beethoven was utterly flat and one companion - who had never heard the piece before - was quite baffled by the rapturous applause that followed it.  The Sibelius was magnificent and exciting - in my book, more exciting than the reading given by Jansons and his Bavarians last year.  My companion, who heard Sib 2 for the first time at last year's Proms, was of the same opinion.  Now I know the forces for the two pieces were very different but in couldn't help wondering where was the tension, the grandeur, the oomph in the Beethoven.  The Sibelius proved the orchestra knows how to supply such ingredients but they seemed absent in the concerto. 

If Ruth was annoyed by that mobile she should be thankful she wasn't sitting where we were.  One person sitting next to me got me seriously worried that she was fulfilling a lifelong wish to expire at the RAH during the Proms.  Having coughed and spluttered - and opened and closed her zipped handbag numerous times during the Beethoven - she then clearly saw nothing wrong with repeating the performance in the second half.  I've got the same seat for tonight - I sincerely hope this lady hasn't! And a couple behind me had brought a couple of young children.  As far as I could tell, the behaviour  of the children was pretty much exemplary but the parents seemed less considerate.  Instead of making sure the children were watered in the (pretty lengthy) pause between the 1st & 2nd movements of the concerto they handed them noisy plastic bottles just as the slow movement was starting.  I barely noticed the mobile going off!  On the subject of that pause, it occurred to me last night that there's little point in worrying about ones concentration being ruined by applause if the stewards are going to admit people and guide them to seats in mid-row between movements.  I'm seriously thinking of booking no seats at all next year.  I haven't experienced behaviour anywhere near as bad in the arena this year. 
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Daniel
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« Reply #5 on: 11:28:06, 02-09-2008 »

I agree, George.

In the 2nd symphony it feels to me like Sibelius has found something absolutely fundamental, as if he has the genetic code for the whole of nature in his pen, and he allows it to run following its own promptings. It sounds so fresh and doesn't sound personal in the way that say Tchaikovsky or Mahler do, in whose music to my ears you can hear the composer appeal to you personally (so to speak). With Sibelius, he seems to pop in from time to time as a recognisable emotional identity (definitely I hear him for example in the chorale-like brass idea in the second movt, and the beautiful folky tune that precedes the big final tune - at least that is how it felt last night) but for the rest of the time, it is like hearing the collisions of energies in the atmosphere playing and interacting.

I wonder if I can feel something approximating the weather in his music not because he portrays it consciously, but because its principles are interwoven into his self-expression, the effect of which is of energies balancing themselves out and running their own course, rather than being inspected and directed.

Possibly more than any other composer I can hear cells of energy in the music which either come to fruition or not, always full of potential though. To my ears it is music that is bursting with latent kinetic energy that brings a great sense of renewal, of joy and of hope, just like the weather does (er, sometimes  Roll Eyes). Often these cells do not evolve, they only suggest the constant bubbling of energy beneath the surface, always seeking to find equilibrium between themselves. It doesn't feel such an emotional struggle, more an elemental one, as if somebody is finding their identity by observing nature and bearing witness to it, rather than in inspecting their own inner world - the setting is the drama, rather than a place where the drama is set.

 Anyway, this is what struck me listening last night, and blah, blah, etc, but these painfully amateurish attempts at description aside, I found that even with all its imperfections this performance was one of the most moving I've heard all year, and certainly one of the most exciting of this symphony I've ever heard.

« Last Edit: 11:30:13, 02-09-2008 by Daniel » Logged
martle
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« Reply #6 on: 12:22:32, 02-09-2008 »

Daniel, not for the first time you've articulated clearly and exactly how you see this music, and it happens to accord with my own feelings about Sibelius, so thankyou. Couldn't have put it any better.  Smiley
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Green. Always green.
George Garnett
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« Reply #7 on: 12:50:22, 02-09-2008 »

Bother. Not for the first time Martle has just beaten me to saying what I wanted to say. Smiley

You have put very well, Daniel, the sort of inchoate thoughts I have about Sibelius and 'nature' that I've never been able to condense into words. This sentence struck a particular chord with me:
It doesn't feel such an emotional struggle, more an elemental one, as if somebody is finding their identity by observing nature and bearing witness to it, rather than in inspecting their own inner world - the setting is the drama, but rather than a place where the drama is set.

Thank you for that! It is an idea that fits well with a lot of Sibelius and almost uniquely with him I think. Beethoven may try to take on the natural world single-handed and wrestle it to the ground by force of will but the concept of selfless 'witnessing' strikes me as perfect for Sibelius.

FWIW it strikes me that what you describe may be a helpful way of approaching the Sixth Symphony (a work I'm very fond of though I see from a recent post that Richard doesn't rate it much). There the 'setting' - to pursue the metaphor - is vast but, rather than trying to compress the whole it into symphonic form, Sibelius provides brief fragmented glimpses of it with the potential there but only ever hinted at. I like.   
« Last Edit: 12:56:06, 02-09-2008 by George Garnett » Logged
thompson1780
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« Reply #8 on: 13:38:11, 02-09-2008 »

Oh,  I can see I am going to have to try to listen to the Sibelius part of this concert again.

I saw a bit of the Beethoven on BBC4 and was utterly unmoved.  Znaijder wasn't letting the structure of the work do its stuff and was trying to make things happen at a detailed level - thereby ruining everything.  I'm not surpirsed HtoHe and friends weren't impressed.

Sadly, I turned off and forgot to turn on again for the Sibelius.  I rather like what I have heard of the GMJSO, so I'll listen out again.

Oh, and another supporter of Daniels' words here - although 'fresh' isn't quite right.  I know what you mean, as it does sound like it was composed yesterday, but I wonder if 'raw' is a better word.

Tommo
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Made by Thompson & son, at the Violin & c. the West end of St. Paul's Churchyard, LONDON
french frank
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« Reply #9 on: 14:57:44, 13-09-2008 »

No one happens to have a recording of the Sibelius, do they? Not for me, but for a tiny ... desperate voice (and ears)   Smiley
Was it not Prom 62, by the way?
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Ron Dough
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« Reply #10 on: 15:00:36, 13-09-2008 »

Is that sound only or with a picture, ff?

I should be able to furnish either....  Wink
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french frank
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« Reply #11 on: 16:52:33, 13-09-2008 »

Sound only. Thanks, R. More follows ...
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