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Author Topic: Quartet for the End of Time  (Read 264 times)
IgnorantRockFan
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« on: 08:54:19, 05-09-2008 »

When I heard this a few months ago I was four feet away from the performers. I can't imagine it carrying to the depth of the Albert Cavern Hall. Was anybody there to experience it in person?

I thought I heard a lot of differences between last night's concert and the version I have on CD, which I guess is down to the microphones picking up a different balance between the instruments.

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Allegro, ma non tanto
trained-pianist
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« Reply #1 on: 09:19:42, 05-09-2008 »

I don't know CD that you have, IgnorantRockFan.

I listened to the  Quartet last night on radio 3.
I thought it was a very good performance, but I can not compare it with others. I really loved it.
« Last Edit: 09:21:24, 05-09-2008 by trained-pianist » Logged
thompson1780
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« Reply #2 on: 10:02:44, 05-09-2008 »

Was anybody there to experience it in person?

I was.  I was in one of the Grand Tier boxes to the right of the performers (their right).  It was high up, and the balance was a bit odd.  In the louder parts, clarinet and piano easily overpowered cello and violin.  There were some very nice elements of balance when the quartet played piano or pianissimo.

An odd concert - I really enjoyed it, although there were lots of things to criticise (maybe why it's different from your recording, IRF).  Frost went flat on (at least 3 of) his long crescendo notes as he got very loud, which was gross (and a basic mistake?).  And he seemed to pull the tempo around when it needed to be strict.  He seemed good when he needed to punch teh sound, but maybe did this too much?

Barley had poor vibrato in his movement.  It stopped as each note changed and then started again.  It was way too wide, and had two settings (on and off).  I was listening for change of vibrato with change in intensity, but it didn't happen.  The whole movement also got faster, which I don't think it is supposed to do.

I really did enjoy Marwood's playing though.  A wonderful tone in all areas of the instrument.  there were a couple of blemishes on bow changes in the high intense parts, but they were soon forgotten and are just luck-of-the-draw things when you are trying to get the most intensity you can.  I was most impressed by the way he went into and came away from the last phrases.

I would have preferred to be in the arena, but a good experience being 'up there' and being able to see everything.

Tommo
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richard barrett
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« Reply #3 on: 10:24:22, 05-09-2008 »

Barley had poor vibrato in his movement.  It stopped as each note changed and then started again.  It was way too wide, and had two settings (on and off).  I was listening for change of vibrato with change in intensity, but it didn't happen.  The whole movement also got faster, which I don't think it is supposed to do.

I believe he's just returned to work after a number of months away from the cello caused by a shoulder injury, and I don't think this kind of thing is typical of his playing. (It's a risky strategy to go so quickly from nothing to the Proms of course.)
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #4 on: 10:35:09, 05-09-2008 »

It's the second time in a couple of weeks that balance problems have been reported in chamber music at the Proms.   The first was in the Janacek Capriccio,  and I was in the Arena for that one.   From where I was standing (3rd row - ie only a few metres behind the conductor) the balance seemed to be ideal.  Yet many in other parts of the hall, and still more people listening on R3,  reported very poor balance,  and I don't doubt that's exactly what they heard.   Now the self-same problems are being mentioned about the Messiaen Sad

The cavernous monstrosity of the RAH is utterly unsuited to chamber recitals - they're completely the wrong scale to be heard to best effect there.   

The issue about whether the Proms (or in fact any classical concerts) should continue at this horrible venue is a separate one - not even the RAH's strongest fans can claim that chamber music comes over well there Sad
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thompson1780
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« Reply #5 on: 11:01:37, 05-09-2008 »

The cavernous monstrosity of the RAH is utterly unsuited to chamber recitals - they're completely the wrong scale to be heard to best effect there.   

I was thinking that last night.  A shame, because some works for chamber forces (as opposed to chamber music works) sound as if they should be in a large space.  The actual music of the Messaien last night would have been great in the RAH if violins and cellos had as much oomph and presence as pianos and clarinets.  So, I can imagine a 'chamber work' that would be OK in the RAH - it would have to have instrumentation where the accoustic properties of the instruments was balanced (e.g. all clarinets, or all violins, but not mixed) and woudl have to be of a nature that suited a large space (e.g. a mystical work).

Oddly, I think intimate works may work well - the experience of a small soul being given a voice in the presence of many people would be amazing.  Perhaps eru's Brahms Intermezzos?

Richard - thanks for the info on Barley.  Unfortunate.

Tommo
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richard barrett
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« Reply #6 on: 11:27:51, 05-09-2008 »

Paradoxically, the only performance at the RAH I can remember which wasn't either compromised or destroyed by the space was Stimmung, where I was sitting more or less next to the stage.
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #7 on: 11:39:45, 05-09-2008 »

In the louder parts, clarinet and piano easily overpowered cello and violin.

You'll get that! It happens everywhere, not just in caverns. There's one particular note (the high F# near the end of the Danse de la fureur) where the clarinettist has the choice of pulling the punch so it sounds utterly wussy or obliterating all three colleagues. As far as I'm concerned there is indeed no choice. Smiley

Frost went flat on (at least 3 of) his long crescendo notes as he got very loud, which was gross (and a basic mistake?).

There are only 3 main ones... it's easy for that to happen of course. Don't know if I do it any better... but if you see him you might like to suggest that he roll the right-hand middle finger off the hole at the very peak of the crescendo next time.

And he seemed to pull the tempo around when it needed to be strict. 

Where was that I wonder? Messiaen does indeed tell the performers not to shy away from rubato, especially in the birdsong in the clarinet movement.

The whole movement also got faster, which I don't think it is supposed to do.

No, the cellist needs to pick a tempo for the beginning which will still work when it's loud! Very often at the first forte the cellist runs away, so to speak...
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thompson1780
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« Reply #8 on: 11:43:52, 05-09-2008 »

And he seemed to pull the tempo around when it needed to be strict. 

Where was that I wonder? Messiaen does indeed tell the performers not to shy away from rubato, especially in the birdsong in the clarinet movement.

Well, perhaps I just felt his rubato was a bit erratic.  But should the last 4 notes of the Clarinet movement be strict?  They weren't.

Tommo
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thompson1780
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« Reply #9 on: 11:52:34, 05-09-2008 »

I mustn't sound too much like a Frost-basher though.  I did very much like his sound.  He was not a honker, and his tone was really rather special in places.  (I have a friend who uses the term 'special' in a rather sarcastic derogatory way - "Um, that was special!" - which I assure you I an NOT doing here.)

I did also think his crescendos were rather good apart from going flat, as they genuinely did come from nothing and got loud in a constinuously smooth and even way (a steady increase in sound rather than fast increase followed by slow (or vice versa)).

AsI said, I enjoyed the concert despite it having bits I could criticise.  It's an annoying thing about my experience of music that I can easily describe the things which 'break the spell', but cannot easily describe the things which 'make the magic'.

Sorry

Tommo
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Eruanto
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« Reply #10 on: 20:01:32, 05-09-2008 »

From the front row of the Arena, it was obvious that the performers were not arranged correctly. Particularly in the violin+piano movement, there were many notes where the ensemble (particularly on the part of the pianist) was not good. This was over-compensated for in the Danse de la fureur movement; does it really require quite so much stamping?

Still I found the performance very mesmerizing. The afore-mentioned Fröst crescendi did work very well, even from that distance they were barely audible at the start. But of course by the end they were on the point of unbearable volume.  Roll Eyes
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