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Author Topic: Prom 69 - Roussel, Rachmaninov, Musgrave, Debussy  (Read 393 times)
HtoHe
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« on: 22:34:09, 06-09-2008 »

I enjoyed the Roussel and Musgrave - neither of which I'd heard before - and found La Mer, which is not a piece I get on with, more bearable than usual but what happened to the Rachmaninov?  The first movement sounded unfamiliar - and not in an interesting, challenging way.  The soloist seemed to be going far quicker than I'm used to and then the piece seemed to lose its shape altogether.  I was looking forward to this - partly for the completely illogical reason that we'd recently had a wonderful Rachmaninov 3 from Nikolai Lugansky - but now I'm wondering whether Stephen Hough will take a similarly unusual line with Beethoven 2 at Cultureville Phil next Friday.  We also have him at our concert society next month, though I suspect his approach might be more appropriate to the recitals we have there. 

Did anyone like this?  Perhaps he was doing something very clever that I, as a non-musician, couldn't appreciate.  This certainly seems to be what happened with Nikolaj Znaider's Beethoven Violin Concerto, if the posts of some obviously very erudite people are any guide.  Maybe I just don't like clever approaches to big Romantic concerti.
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time_is_now
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« Reply #1 on: 03:38:43, 07-09-2008 »

Which Musgrave was it, HtoHe (I could check the website I suppose, if I wasn't being lazy Roll Eyes)? I generally find her recent music a bit grey, but I once heard a much earlier piece (1970ish) which I thought was excellent.

Stephen Hough is not usually one to pull things about, is he? The weirdest playing of mainstream Romantic concerti I've ever heard is from the Finnish pianist (and alleged composer) Olli Mustonen. I'd avoid him if I were you!

Glad you enjoyed La Mer. It's one of my favourite pieces of music ever.
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HtoHe
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« Reply #2 on: 10:49:46, 07-09-2008 »

Which Musgrave was it, HtoHe (I could check the website I suppose, if I wasn't being lazy Roll Eyes)? I generally find her recent music a bit grey, but I once heard a much earlier piece (1970ish) which I thought was excellent.

A piece called Rainbow, t_i_n.  I can't say the music really evoked images of that phenomenon, but 'grey' would be a particularly negative description of a piece with a name like that, wouldn't it?  Iirc the piece is from the early 1990s.

The weirdest playing of mainstream Romantic concerti I've ever heard is from the Finnish pianist (and alleged composer) Olli Mustonen. I'd avoid him if I were you!

Too late to avoid him.  I've seen him at least once and he was both pianist and composer at that event.  He was the pianist in the later of Dvorak's Piano 5tets and I thought he did a good job - though, as I said, chamber music seems to suit the idiosyncratic performer much better than orchestral works, at least as far as I'm concerned.  The second half was the world premiere (& derniere?) of his Nonet for Strings.  This would have been in the mid-1990s and the piece hasn't stuck in my memory, though I don't think I found it unpleasant.  What did stick in my memory was OM's extraordinary playing action - his hands seemed to recoil about 18 inches above the keyboard as if the keys were red hot or electrified!  As for odd playing of Romantic concerti, the one that sticks in my mind was Ivo Pogorelich making Tchaikovsky 1 sound almost like an experimental work - again in the 1990s. 
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Eruanto
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« Reply #3 on: 11:09:40, 07-09-2008 »

I didn't notice anything really wrong with the Rachmaninov until the third movement. He reached the infamous bit in C minor, and almost immediately rushed away wildly. Conductor turned red. It didn't go well after that, he truly skimped some octave passages. The last flourish was just a blur of pedal. This was most uncharacteristic. Nerves? Lack of rehearsal time? Also, I wasn't impressed with the orchestra (they were good in the other pieces), there were times in the tune at the start where the cello's disappeared.

Many people in the arena disappeared at half-time, to have dinner I believe. Although this meant that I got into the front row for Musgrave and Debussy, there was no charity collection. This was despite the fact that the house was full (as far as I could see)...

Partly due to this, I had a close shave getting back to my place after the interval. I was talking to some people from RCM a little way back in the arena, and I was waiting for the charity shout for my cue to leave. This of course never materialised, and I had to run back to the front while Denève was coming on Shocked, made it with about a second to spare.

I always wish La Mer had more to it. The only bit I ever remember is the oboe tune near the end.
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Mary Chambers
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« Reply #4 on: 11:30:42, 07-09-2008 »

People over at TOP seem to think it was poor conducting that messed up this concerto, not Hough. I didn't hear it, but may try Listen Again to hear what all the fuss is about.
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HtoHe
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« Reply #5 on: 11:53:10, 07-09-2008 »

People over at TOP seem to think it was poor conducting that messed up this concerto, not Hough. I didn't hear it, but may try Listen Again to hear what all the fuss is about.

Thanks, Mary.  I hadn't thought of looking there - it all gets so involved and often so bad-tempered that if I've only got time for one MB it's going to be this one.  I like the suggestion that things just went wrong in a way that happens to the best of us sometimes.  Nobody seems to be suggesting it was a misunderstood brilliant interpretation - so that's more evidence for my theory that some audiences will cheer just about anything with wild enthusiasm.  I'm still going to go on Friday if I can get tickets.  If you're there, I'll be the other person who remains seated for the applause - unless there is an exceptional performance, of course.

How did you enjoy Turangalila btw; or have I missed your review?
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Mary Chambers
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« Reply #6 on: 12:55:53, 07-09-2008 »

If you're there, I'll be the other person who remains seated for the applause - unless there is an exceptional performance, of course.

How did you enjoy Turangalila btw; or have I missed your review?

I haven't really written anything about the Liverpool Turangalila. I was pretty much stunned by the concert, particularly the Tristan, which, as my companion said, was like hearing it for the first time. I've never heard a faultless orchestra before! The Messiaen isn't my cup of tea - I think it's badly constructed, though Rattle certainly made the best of it. Lots of interesting noises, never a dull moment, but more spectacle than anything else, I felt. The playing was superb. I was fascinated to see Pierre-Laurent Aimard, playing from memory.

I see some reviews have said that the orchestra is almost too good, and misses intense emotion as a result. I don't agree, though I admit there were moments when I was thinking, "How do they do that?"  I still didn't stand up, though!

Apparently downstairs there were empty seats. Very shocking, considering there were people who would almost have killed for tickets, and were told there were none. Presumably these were Capital of Culture, corporate or council people who just didn't bother to turn up, or tell the Phil they weren't coming.

Apologies to everyone who will say this post is in the wrong place  Smiley.
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richard barrett
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« Reply #7 on: 13:13:29, 07-09-2008 »

I think it's badly constructed

Hm. I would say that whatever things it may be, badly constructed isn't one of them. The "spectacle" you mention might be something of a distraction from the structure sometimes, but almost every time I hear it my attention is drawn to some new instance of how so much of it can be traced back to the expansions, contractions and recombinations of the three basic themes. It certainly isn't Messiaen's most subtle piece of work (compare its slow movement with the related but infinitely more delicate one of Des canyons aux étoiles...) but for me it's one of the handful of twentieth-century orchestral pieces I would be hard put to live without, and one of the principal factors behind that is the combination it has of timbral/expressive freedom with tightness of structure. But one person's structure is another's chaos perhaps.
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Ruth Elleson
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« Reply #8 on: 13:26:53, 07-09-2008 »

Hi Eru,

I was one of those who escaped to dinner with other season ticket holders during the interval. It was not so much a question of leaving a concert to go to dinner, and more one of having decided to have the dinner first (having not intended to go to the concert at all - can't abide La Mer) and then thought - well, the first half of the concert could be worth a listen and it would be a shame to miss it.

There were many others who left at the interval besides the ten of us who went for a curry.

Had we not been going to dinner, none of us would have been there at all, so there would still have been too few PMC trustees and collectors there to do a collection. New collectors are comparatively easily recruited, but I think there was only one trustee around for the whole concert and the requirement is for there to be two in order for us to do a collection. As it's an entirely voluntary setup, there are always going to be a few concerts each season where a collection isn't possible for this reason.
« Last Edit: 14:05:00, 07-09-2008 by Ruth Elleson » Logged

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HtoHe
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« Reply #9 on: 14:03:50, 07-09-2008 »


Apparently downstairs there were empty seats. Very shocking, considering there were people who would almost have killed for tickets, and were told there were none. Presumably these were Capital of Culture, corporate or council people who just didn't bother to turn up, or tell the Phil they weren't coming.

Apologies to everyone who will say this post is in the wrong place  Smiley.

It's a poor show indeed, Mary.  If I'd thought there was any chance of seats I'd have taken my nephew to see an orchestra and conductor who probably won't be back in Liverpool for years performing a work that might not again be heard live there for ages.  That said, I estimated there were at least 20 empty seats in the Cadogan Hall stalls (officially sold out since at least July 28th) for the Nash Ensemble/Mark Padmore concert.  From my seat in the gallery I could see 8 pairs of vacant places at a quick glance; and there were odd singles, too.
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richard barrett
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« Reply #10 on: 14:14:21, 07-09-2008 »

La Mer seems to be getting a bad press around here, with the exception of t_i_n. I've always liked it, though it doesn't get spun that often and I haven't heard the broadcast of this concert yet. It was on the programme the first time I went to the Concertgebouw, in 1980 I believe, with the eponymous orchestra conducted by MTT. That was wonderful (at least the memory of it is). I think I'll have a listen to it later on, since I can't think of anything in it I can imagine anyone objecting to.

Mind you, veering offtopic, I'd say the same about the Charles Trenet song of the same title, which has one of the most satisfying orchestral arrangements of any popular song I know - the violin countermelody in the verses and how it varies from one verse to the next - excellent.
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Ron Dough
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« Reply #11 on: 14:37:36, 07-09-2008 »

There's another La Mer fan here, r: I've not yet caught up with that Prom, but the same forces performed it in Dundee earlier this year - a superb performance, which was also recorded and broadcast. Quite by chance, one of the extra musicians engaged for the performance and the short European tour that followed was someone I know from my time in London, from which source I learned that relations between the conductor and the (different) soloist on that occasion had been far from smooth: his work with the orchestra on the French repertoire has been consistently impressive, though.


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Eruanto
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« Reply #12 on: 18:26:21, 07-09-2008 »

It was not so much a question of leaving a concert to go to dinner, and more one of having decided to have the dinner first...

hi Ruth, thanks for that clarification. It did seem like the former to the unenlightened.
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martle
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« Reply #13 on: 18:39:11, 07-09-2008 »

Another card-carrying La Mer fan checks in. Maybe people used to rather more tempestuous depictions of the sea (Mary?  Cheesy ) find Debussy's subtle colours and gradual evolutions of shapes and tones in this work a little underwhelming by comparison. But I find it utterly compelling and irresistable, and exemplifies like no other work of his (except perhaps Jeux) Debussy's fluid but absolutely precise command of unpredictable, yet completely convincing structural growth.
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richard barrett
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« Reply #14 on: 19:08:50, 07-09-2008 »

Right. I mean the sea associations are really not the main point are they? It isn't a Straussian symphonic poem where every event in the story has a corresponding musical figure. I'm not generally a big fan of Debussy, and I think my view of this piece is much influenced by the aforementioned live performance, which actually was overwhelming, and I'm not easily overwhelmed.
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