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Author Topic: Hobbling around town with your trousers around your ankles  (Read 802 times)
Kittybriton
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Thank you for the music ...


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« on: 15:20:06, 08-02-2007 »

Oh! The title? Something a visiting lecturer said to us on the subject of Your First Solo Show when I was a student.

What It's Really About: software for notating music.

Being (a) penniless most of the time  Embarrassed, and (b) musically inclined (like leaning against the bar after a concert  Roll Eyes) I tend to look out for freeware rather than utilities that will soon be obsolete, and cost the equivalent of three weeks food. My first discovery (and I still use it sometimes) is Coda Technology's Finale Notepad. It can't do everything, but it can do a lot, and it has a big brother that can do everything and then some. The disadvantage of FNP is that you can't share files electronically with someone who doesn't use FNP. Which brings me to My Favourite: ABC notation has been around for roughly a decade already, and is continuing to develop. While I'm sure technology will soon advance to a point where the present limitations will become a thing of the past, in the meantime, ABC notation allows musicians to write music (including chords and voices) in a human-readable, text-only format. Even if the recipient doesn't have the same software that the sender does, most of the available utilities will quite happily eat copy-and-paste transfers.

So, what are your preferences when notating music using the computer? and why?
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TimR-J
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« Reply #1 on: 16:58:01, 08-02-2007 »

I've heard of ABC notation. I only really use notation software for preparing musical examples for articles etc and my old version of Sibelius (v.1) got chucked when my even older computer left. How easy is ABC to learn, and even better, do you know any (cheap or free) editors to start working with?
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reiner_torheit
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« Reply #2 on: 18:03:59, 08-02-2007 »

I'm a fairly unrepentant Finale user.   Sibelius has never really penetrated the Russian market,  so everyone I work with at all frequently uses Finale.  I find it very ergonomic - I tried Sibelius, but it drove me crackers.  There are a few things which don't quite work in Finale...  the ones which stick in my mind are  (i) the scanning utility still doesn't work (but frankly no-one expected it would)  (ii) adding an additional stave to your work later is a major pallaver and nothing moves into place as it ought to...  you end up having to respace the staves manually.  No matter what preference you choose for adding the stave (viz "add in orchestral order" etc) it still gets added right at the bottom below the double-basses. 

If midi voices bother you, there are a few more tiny gripes.  In v7.0 the midi voices seem to be a lot worse than they were in v6.0, but there is no way to copy them over from the previous version.   The most annoying is that you cannot (as far as I can see) mark pizzicatos in string parts that will play like that on the midi playback - they always play "arco", no matter what marking you've put in.  Frankly I only use Finale to prepare scores and parts for use by live musicians...  so these things don't really worry me, except when checking my own work.

Other than that, however, I think it is a super tool.  The SongText tool is fabulous, and extremely flexible.

Just make sure you have plenty of RAM installed to run it!   I have 1Gb of Ram (which is the max you can install on a Sony VAIO) and even then Finale grumbles a bit in longer pieces.  If you work a lot with it,  better to use a dedicated desktop machine and at least 2Gb of RAM.
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martle
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« Reply #3 on: 18:30:07, 08-02-2007 »

I'm with opilec. Sibelius (and Sib 3, not the rip-off non-upgrade Sib 4). Why? Mostly because music LOOKS so much better than any others, and that's the main thing for a notation programme, isn't it? As long as other things are equal of course, and I find it easy and user-friendly. Interesting that it was invented by two composers - I think it shows!  Tongue
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martle
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« Reply #4 on: 18:54:22, 08-02-2007 »

Re automatic parts (ooh!) in Sib 4: unless they've fixed it, the problem (and it's a big one) is that if you fiddle with your parts, it fiddles with the score. It works both ways. So, lengthen a bar a bit for a page turn in a part, and it b******s up your score.
Of course it's a professional programme (the full version), so has to be flexible enough for pros - which in turn means that inexperienced users (students etc.) can make their stuff look appalling. But that's the same for any programme I guess...
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Jonathan
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« Reply #5 on: 20:36:43, 08-02-2007 »

For music writing, I did decide at one point to use Mozart.  However, having bought the software, I found that it took as long to manually write something as it did the old fashioned way so I went back to pen and paper!
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reiner_torheit
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« Reply #6 on: 22:23:49, 09-02-2007 »

Hi Jonathan

Yes, I tried Mozart, and I hated it from the very first moment. Who on earth could find it useful?  I suppose if your handwriting was really, really poor, it would at least make your work legible... that's about all Sad

Thanks to Martle and Opilec for their ringing endorsements of Sib 3...  I am too deeply wedded to Finale (which does indeed hog disk-space) to change.  My answer is just to use big disks and back-up to SD cards now they've plummeted in price Smiley
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richard barrett
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« Reply #7 on: 01:47:02, 10-02-2007 »

Apart from the convenience of part-extraction, for me I've never felt that these programs offer any real advantages over using a pen. I know that's a big "apart from", but most of what I write is suitable for making parts from by cutting and pasting. I shall have to sit down and get to grips with a notation program some time, probably next time I have an orchestra to deal with, by which time, no doubt, hell will be experiencing public transport chaos owing to "sticky snow" on the lines.

I use a computer for musical work in all sorts of ways, but not for notating it. I think I just enjoy the tactile aspect of working with pens and paper.
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aaron cassidy
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« Reply #8 on: 02:59:55, 10-02-2007 »

Richard - the advantage for me of notation software is not an issue of practicality or convenience (as in part extraction, for example) but rather one of aesthetics.  The scores I create with Finale look and feel like I imagine my music looking, whereas my hand-written scores (though, admittedly, I haven't done any in well over a decade), ironically, don't really look like 'me.' 

You are, it should be said, blessed with absurdly lovely (and unique) musical penmanship.  We're not all so lucky. 
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scott_
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« Reply #9 on: 03:20:53, 10-02-2007 »

I'm a finale user as well, it was what I was taught in my undergrad and I got good at it. In scores I've used it for I've needed a lot of non-standard notation which requires work-arounds but finale is flexible enough to meet the demands I've thrown at it.

This year I've had to learn Sibelius in order to teach it as an introductory course for 1st years: the institute I work for have it installed in their computer labs. I found it very quick andf easy to learn but to achieve this they've had to sacrifice a fair amount of the flexibility that makes finale good.

If I was to choose between them I'd say that sibelius was better for quickly banging musical examples or relatively 'standard' scores together but finale (while having a steeper learning curve) was better at complicated scores and fine tweaking of the layout

That said I think I need to go back to handwritten scores for a while, computer notation programmes subtly change the way you write, I need to be freed up a bit again.
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harmonyharmony
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« Reply #10 on: 21:41:01, 03-03-2007 »

I use Sibelius (3).
I write everything by hand and then transcribe it.

My major irritants are:

irrational time signatures have to be fiddled

you can use your own fonts for unconventional notation (e.g. microtones) but there's no way of getting one of your symbols to function (and I'm not talking about sound or anything, in case you wondered) like, for example, an accidental.

simultaneous tempi are a real pain in the nether regions (especially adding the bar lines)

your score looks like everyone else's (to some extent) in a way that your handwriting never does

you can't beam two quavers together over a system break (though you can over a barline)

there are a few really annoying restrictions over things like lines and hairpins that seem to make no sense at all

There was something else but I've forgotten what it was. I decided at the beginning of my PhD to start notating everything on Sibelius, but I keep on thinking that I should try other programmes (I've got Lilypond but not quite got around to doing anything with it; I've looked at Finale but wasn't overly wowed) or go back to pencil and paper.
We'll see.
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reiner_torheit
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« Reply #11 on: 22:19:41, 03-03-2007 »

Hi HH

Finale has supported irrational time-signatures since the Finale-2005 version.  You can have 1/4, you can have 2/17 (I've tried it and it works).  The only thing you can't have is more beats in a bar than there should be - this was a problem when notating ossias and cadenzas in Finale-2005 (there was an ossia tool but it was a bit buggy), but it's been fixed in the latest version.  Auto part-printing? Nyet problemski :-)

The only niggle I am still unable to solve in Finale-2006 is bar-numbering when a repeat-sign occurs in the middle of a bar (as you might get in a Minuet & Trio)... the orphan upbeat gets numbered as a separate bar.  This is no biggie normally, but the bar-numbers in the parts would no longer tally with a published score.
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harmonyharmony
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« Reply #12 on: 00:14:47, 04-03-2007 »

That's good to know.
Once this flaming PhD is done and dusted, I might have some time to think about this properly.
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'is this all we can do?'
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Ron Dough
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« Reply #13 on: 09:51:27, 05-03-2007 »

Re automatic parts in Sib4: one solution is to save the final score twice, then use copy B as the version for parts generation; that way you can make sure that the full score stays as you want it whilst allowing you tinker around freely with the spacing for parts to your heart's content. But hey, I'm only an amateur dabbler whose Sib4/Garritan combination means he has a chance to hear every work, including those yet to be performed, for 'real' outside his head as well as in the mind's ear*.

*And therefore in mono, presumably.....
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