The Radio 3 Boards Forum from myforum365.com
06:43:23, 03-12-2008 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Whilst we happily welcome all genuine applications to our forum, there may be times when we need to suspend registration temporarily, for example when suffering attacks of spam.
 If you want to join us but find that the temporary suspension has been activated, please try again later.
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  

Pages: 1 [2]
  Print  
Author Topic: Hamlet  (Read 673 times)
Don Basilio
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 2682


Era solo un mio sospetto


« Reply #15 on: 22:12:35, 30-09-2008 »

I'm amazed I ever got an A for my English A level, when my appreciation of Hamlet was so far behind hh's.

How does Titus Groan fit in?
Logged

To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
harmonyharmony
*****
Posts: 4080



WWW
« Reply #16 on: 23:05:20, 30-09-2008 »

I had the advantage of being completely obsessed with Hamlet from the age of around 15, and from my brother being similarly obsessed during that same time. He would come back in his holidays and repeat chunks of what his lecturers had said about Hamlet. Much more interesting than anything that Eliot wrote about Hamlet. I decided that as much as I liked Eliot's poetry, I didn't really think he understood Hamlet (I read that essay on the train to Durham for my first ever visit).
Also I really enjoyed revenge tragedy (especially the truly wonderful Duchess of Malfi - Simon Russell Beale as Ferdinand, Juliet Stevenson as the Duchess) and Greek tragedy (Diana Rigg as Medea).
And I've developed how I think about the play since then (I think)...

There's no direct Titus Groan link, but there are aspects of the story that are clearly (IMO) echoes of Hamlet.
Think of the way that Fuchsia dies for example, or his father's shadowy ghostly existence between his madness and his death, or think of Steerpike as Titus's alter-ego. There are obviously other things going on in Gormenghast but I see Castle Gormenghast as a monstrous Elsinore, seen through the lens of Otranto.
Logged

'is this all we can do?'
anonymous student of the University of Berkeley, California quoted in H. Draper, 'The new student revolt' (New York: Grove Press, 1965)
http://www.myspace.com/itensemble
Don Basilio
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 2682


Era solo un mio sospetto


« Reply #17 on: 10:57:33, 01-10-2008 »

I'd forgotten about The Duches of Malfi.  I really like it.  Maybe because the principal character is a woman, trying to survive in a world where everyone else is off their heads.  I saw a production in the round (inevitibly) at the Roundhouse, with Helen Mirren as the Duchess and Bob Hoskins as Bosola.
Logged

To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
Don Basilio
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 2682


Era solo un mio sospetto


« Reply #18 on: 11:13:08, 01-10-2008 »

But hang on, The Duchess isn't a revenge tragedy.  Unless you argue her two ghastly brothers are revenging themselves on her.  In which case it is unique as a revenge tragedy in which all the sympathy is with the object of revenge.
Logged

To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
harmonyharmony
*****
Posts: 4080



WWW
« Reply #19 on: 19:04:25, 01-10-2008 »

The revenge isn't on the Duchess but on her two brothers.
It's a revenge tragedy without a revenger.
More of the natural order of things demanding the ensuing violence as a result.

But perhaps it's better to say 'I really enjoyed Jacobean drama, especially that of John Webster' rather than 'I really enjoyed revenge tragedy' because I don't really want to argue about classification or semantics.
Logged

'is this all we can do?'
anonymous student of the University of Berkeley, California quoted in H. Draper, 'The new student revolt' (New York: Grove Press, 1965)
http://www.myspace.com/itensemble
A
*****
Posts: 4808



« Reply #20 on: 20:10:57, 04-10-2008 »


How does Titus Groan fit in?

Wonderful book!!!!!!
Logged

Well, there you are.
A
*****
Posts: 4808



« Reply #21 on: 20:11:57, 04-10-2008 »

Tinners... we are playing 'Hamlet' (Tchaik) in November.... just thought I would mention it !!!! (No use whatsoever, I know, sorry  Roll Eyes)

A
Logged

Well, there you are.
Mary Chambers
*****
Gender: Female
Posts: 2589



« Reply #22 on: 20:45:30, 04-10-2008 »

I understood Hamlet when I was 18. I don't now. I can recite a lot of it, though.

The two Hamlets I remember best were David Warner and......Rudolf Nureyev, in Helpmann's ballet to the Tchaik overture that A is going to play. The ballet was, as I remember it, largely mime, needing a really big personality.

Logged
Il Grande Inquisitor
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 4665



« Reply #23 on: 10:06:30, 11-10-2008 »

I'd forgotten about The Duches of Malfi.  I really like it.  Maybe because the principal character is a woman, trying to survive in a world where everyone else is off their heads.  I saw a production in the round (inevitibly) at the Roundhouse, with Helen Mirren as the Duchess and Bob Hoskins as Bosola.

Just a quick 'heads-up' that The Duchess of Malfi is tomorrow's Drama on 3!
Logged

Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency
Stanley Stewart
*****
Posts: 1090


Well...it was 1935


« Reply #24 on: 13:28:24, 11-10-2008 »

    And Peggy Ashcroft's memorably ringing,  "I am the Duchess of Malfi still" at the RSC, Aldwych Theatre, in 1961.

    Apologies to our blessed Will for hi-jacking your thread but, in mitigation, it was possible to continue the discussion on the princely Dane by PM.   Grin            "The readiness is all".
Logged
harmonyharmony
*****
Posts: 4080



WWW
« Reply #25 on: 13:31:09, 11-10-2008 »

Just a quick 'heads-up' that The Duchess of Malfi is tomorrow's Drama on 3!

Thanks IGI! Brilliant! [drool....]

Come. Bid the soldiers shoot.
Logged

'is this all we can do?'
anonymous student of the University of Berkeley, California quoted in H. Draper, 'The new student revolt' (New York: Grove Press, 1965)
http://www.myspace.com/itensemble
SH
***
Posts: 101



« Reply #26 on: 21:35:23, 16-11-2008 »

t-i-n

I've come late to this thread, but Derrida on the work of mourning and the persistence of history in Spectres of Marx aside, try Stephen Greenblatt in Hamlet in Purgatory which reads the play as haunted by the Reformation argument about the non-existence of Purgatory & the abandonment of the dead to death and the living to a condition where death & the dead are completely alien to them. There are some fraught texts by Sir Thomas More on the subject.

It's actually a disturbing book, and oddly ties in with Derrida - a world where "we" float after the so-called death of history.

My one contribution to Hamlet scholarship was a reading of the Ghost's line "Remember me" - where, surely, there is a corporeal pun: put me back together again. Make me a living body again.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hamlet-Purgatory-Stephen-Greenblatt/dp/0691102570/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1226871433&sr=1-2
« Last Edit: 21:38:17, 16-11-2008 by SH » Logged
Jonathan
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 1473


Still Lisztening...


WWW
« Reply #27 on: 10:06:04, 17-11-2008 »

I too have come late to this thread!
I was thinking about Liszt's Symphonic poem Hamlet - probably the most sinister of the symphonic poems, Liszt wrote to von Bulow in 1858 that Hamlet was depicted as "pale, fevered, suspended between heaven and earth, the prisoner of his doubt and irresolution".  Even Ophelia is reduced to "shadowy hints" in the strings in the middle part.  A whole atmosphere of gloom and psychological distress pervades the piece.  Must have a listen later on.  It was originally written as an overture for the play and later adapted into a symphonic poem.
I studied it for GCSE but cannot remember much of it.
Logged

Best regards,
Jonathan
*********************************************
"as the housefly of destiny collides with the windscreen of fate..."
SH
***
Posts: 101



« Reply #28 on: 11:05:28, 17-11-2008 »

I too have come late to this thread!
I was thinking about Liszt's Symphonic poem Hamlet - probably the most sinister of the symphonic poems, Liszt wrote to von Bulow in 1858 that Hamlet was depicted as "pale, fevered, suspended between heaven and earth, the prisoner of his doubt and irresolution".  Even Ophelia is reduced to "shadowy hints" in the strings in the middle part.  A whole atmosphere of gloom and psychological distress pervades the piece.  Must have a listen later on.  It was originally written as an overture for the play and later adapted into a symphonic poem.
I studied it for GCSE but cannot remember much of it.

Jonathan

(Off topic - again  Sad), but thanks for recommending the Noseda Liszt CDs. I found Hunnenschlacht hard work, but Hamlet is an extraordinary thing. You are (of course) right - there's none of Gretchen's tender lyricism in Ophelia's music.

It's as is she's always/already a ghostly memory. Fascinating. And I've got 2 1/2 volumes to listen to yet Smiley

"It was originally written as an overture for the play." I wonder what he would have done with the dumb show, the play within the play?
Logged
Jonathan
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 1473


Still Lisztening...


WWW
« Reply #29 on: 11:27:40, 17-11-2008 »

Hi SH,
Glad to be helped with the Symphonic Poems!!  I still have yet to get Noseada's volume 4 which is sadly the last one as there is still much of Liszt's orchestral music to be recorded (I did ask Chandos about the remainder years ago but they said it was dependent on sales and, bearing in mind they have stopped now, I assume they were not that great)  Angry

As for the any other music Liszt may have written for Hamlet, there is no indication of anything besides the "Overture" (Walker lists it as a "Prelude" ) in any of my numerous books about Liszt!  Perhaps he considered it to be a psychological study at the beginning of the play and felt no other music was necessary?

My earlier post also contains an grammatical error which could lead to confusion- I didn't study the Symphonic Poem Hamlet at GCSE, it was the original play!  Roll Eyes

Think I'll put the CD on now...
Logged

Best regards,
Jonathan
*********************************************
"as the housefly of destiny collides with the windscreen of fate..."
Pages: 1 [2]
  Print  
 
Jump to: