Ron Dough
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« Reply #855 on: 10:42:00, 17-10-2008 » |
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In natural speech one would expect the stresses to fall on the second and seventh syllables, Mistress K.: Aber-BROTH-uck (the last syllable being both indeterminate and unstressed). The fact that the contraction ArbROATH, which has now replaced the original name completely, maintains that stress is a very clear indication of how it must have been pronounced originally (and with a long, slightly closed 'o' sound similar to the Scandinavian, to boot).
It is clear from the rhyme scheme, however (where both 'rock' and 'shock' are offered as rhymes) that Southey was either unaware of the actual scansion, or was else unable to cope with it, so I would hazard a guess that he was calculating that the stress should fall on the second and eight syllables, and expecting a smaller one on the fifth to reinforce the consonance of the two 'Ab' syllables in close proximity: The ABB-ott of AB-er-broth-OCK. (3/1-2-3/1-2-3/1)
During the poet's lifetime (1774 -1843), travel was considerably more of an undertaking than it is now, and although Scotland was becoming part of the Grand Tour, it was the west rather than the east coast which drew most visitors. It is very possible, therefore, that Southey was simply reproducing the name as he assumed it must sound without ever having heard it correctly pronounced, thus leading to this confusion.
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Andy D
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« Reply #856 on: 11:07:27, 17-10-2008 » |
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I went to hear Ian MacMillan at the Birmingham Book Festival last night. He was performing verses from his latest book, which is a sort of autobiography and is centred around his mother and father. I haven't laughed so much for ages, he really is a wonderful stand up comedian as well as a very amusing poet. He was only on for about 65-70 minutes but he goes at such a pace that there was a lot packed into that time. My favourite from his output is an older poem "Ted Hughes is Elvis Presley".
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Mary Chambers
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« Reply #857 on: 11:30:14, 17-10-2008 » |
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The Inchcape Rock was the sort of poem that we learned as children, along with The Wreck of the Hesperus. Bad poems, probably, but we enjoyed the drama.
Sir Ralph the Rover tore his hair, And cursed himself in his despair.
I think we always knew it was faintly funny. There are several examples of poor scansion in the poem, and I was never happy about the bell that "over the waves its warning rung". Surely it should be "rang"?
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Don Basilio
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« Reply #858 on: 13:01:17, 17-10-2008 » |
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The old warhorse I knew at school, and now think is hilarious and bit camp (to use Mrs K's term) goes as follows. A cod Sussex or Mummerset accent helps
If you wake at midnight, and hear a horse's feet, Don't go drawing back the blind, or looking in the street. Them that ask no questions isn't told a lie. Watch the wall, my darling, while the Gentlemen go by!
Five and twenty ponies, Trotting through the dark - Brandy for the Parson, 'Baccy for the Clerk; Laces for a lady, letters for a spy, And watch the wall, my darling, while the Gentlemen go by!
Running round the woodlump if you chance to find Little barrels, roped and tarred, all full of brandy-wine, Don't you shout to come and look, nor use 'em for your play. Put the brishwood back again - and they'll be gone next day!
If you see the stable-door setting open wide; If you see a tired horse lying down inside; If your mother mends a coat cut about and tore; If the lining's wet and warm - don't you ask no more!
If you meet King George's men, dressed in blue and red, You be careful what you say, and mindful what is said. If they call you "pretty maid," and chuck you 'neath the chin, Don't you tell where no one is, nor yet where no one's been!
Knocks and footsteps round the house - whistles after dark - You've no call for running out till the house-dogs bark. Trusty's here, and Pincher's here, and see how dumb they lie - They don't fret to follow when the Gentlemen go by!
If you do as you've been told, 'likely there's a chance, You'll be given a dainty doll, all the way from France, With a cap of Valenciennes, and a velvet hood - A present from the Gentlemen, along o' being good!
Five and twenty ponies, Trotting through the dark - Brandy for the Parson, 'Baccy for the Clerk; Them that asks no questions isn't told a lie -
Watch the wall, my darling, while the Gentlemen go by.
Rudyard Kipling
Oo ah, Jim lad
One of my favourites for reciting to myself.
Edit to add my italics. That line is so wondefully knowing. I'm sure it could give itself to saucy double entendre.
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« Last Edit: 14:57:02, 17-10-2008 by Don Basilio »
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven. A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
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Mary Chambers
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« Reply #859 on: 14:52:49, 17-10-2008 » |
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Oh yes, we did that one, DB, Not to mention The Highwayman, by Alfred Noyes, which I adored. WHY?
Blood-red were his spurs in the golden noon, wine-red was his velvet coat, When they shot him down on the highway, Down like a dog on the highway, And he lay in his blood on the highway, With a bunch of lace at his throat.
This after many goings on involving Tim the Ostler, Bess the landlord's daughter (the landlord's black-eyed daughter), muskets, horses and blood. Not really to my taste now.
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Ron Dough
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« Reply #860 on: 17:00:46, 17-10-2008 » |
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There are several examples of poor scansion in the poem, and I was never happy about the bell that "over the waves its warning rung". Surely it should be "rang"?
Inaccurate, yes, Mary, but endearingly (though probably accidentally) apposite for an ode set in an area infamous for its cavalier attitude to participles. The good shire-folk of Angus are, after all, the very souls that inflicted jamped or even jamp on our tongue in place of jumped, to mention but one celebrated example.
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SusanDoris
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« Reply #861 on: 18:00:14, 19-10-2008 » |
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Don Basilio Oo ah, Jim lad
One of my favourites for reciting to myself. This was an excellent one too to use when I was teaching. A brief postscript to the skipping rhyme. The way to use it does not follow natural stress or anything really, but with ordinary skipping (skip, bounce, skip, bounce etc) each line has to be read as 1 & 2-and-a 3-and-a 4. I am skipping, I'm skipping a bum
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strinasacchi
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« Reply #862 on: 12:51:33, 21-10-2008 » |
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Oh yes, we did that one, DB, Not to mention The Highwayman, by Alfred Noyes, which I adored. WHY?
Blood-red were his spurs in the golden noon, wine-red was his velvet coat, When they shot him down on the highway, Down like a dog on the highway, And he lay in his blood on the highway, With a bunch of lace at his throat.
This after many goings on involving Tim the Ostler, Bess the landlord's daughter (the landlord's black-eyed daughter), muskets, horses and blood. Not really to my taste now.
I loved this too, and had forgotten it completely! Thanks for that, Mary. 
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Andy D
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« Reply #864 on: 22:07:02, 21-10-2008 » |
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Went to hear Carol Ann Duffy reading her poems tonight at the Birmingham Book Festival. I like her stuff but I didn't join the long queue at the end to get a book signed by her. Perhaps people do it because they reckon it will be worth more signed by the author?
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MabelJane
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« Reply #865 on: 22:13:33, 21-10-2008 » |
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but I didn't join the long queue at the end to get a book signed by her. Perhaps people do it because they reckon it will be worth more signed by the author?
Or they just wanted to meet her? The longest queue we ever joined was for the Chuckle Brothers to sign our programme  ...no wonder we waited ages, they had a long chat with everyone! They even exchanged awful jokes with my kids - sorry, this isn't about poetry.
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Merely corroborative detail, intended to give artistic verisimilitude to an otherwise bald and unconvincing narrative.
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Mrs. Kerfoops
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« Reply #866 on: 13:37:29, 22-10-2008 » |
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ENGLAND, with all thy faults, I love thee still - My country! and, while yet a nook is left Where English minds and manners may be found, Shall be constrain'd to love thee. Though thy clime Be fickle, and thy year most part deform'd With dripping rains, or wither'd by a frost, I would not yet exchange thy sullen skies, And fields without a flow'r, for warmer France With all her vines; nor for Ausonia's groves Of golden fruitage, and her myrtle bow'rs. To shake thy senate, and from heights sublime Of patriot eloquence to flash down fire Upon thy foes, was never meant my task: But I can feel thy fortunes, and partake Thy joys and sorrows, with as true a heart As any thund'rer there. And I can feel Thy follies, too; and with a just disdain Frown at effeminates, whose very looks Reflect dishonour on the land I love. How, in the name of soldiership and sense, Should England prosper, when such things, as smooth And tender as a girl, all essenc'd o'er With odours, and as profligate as sweet; Who sell their laurel for a myrtle wreath, And love when they should fight; when such as these Presume to lay their hand upon the ark Of her magnificent and awful cause?
. . .
Yes, well - despite quite a good beginning the work is by this point in terminal decline and we desist from embarrassing Members with any more of it. In fact we have decided to recommend that in future nothing of Cowper should any longer be available to the general public on account of his egregious immorality.
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« Last Edit: 15:12:09, 22-10-2008 by Mrs. Kerfoops »
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Mary Chambers
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« Reply #867 on: 14:35:44, 22-10-2008 » |
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Or they just wanted to meet her? The longest queue we ever joined was for the Chuckle Brothers to sign our programme The longest queue I ever saw was for Ian Bostridge in Manchester. I wasn't in it, just waiting for someone. I'm sure he thought it all a total waste of time, but seemed to be very pleasant to everyone. Sorry, this isn't about poetry either, except it was after a performance of Die Schöne Müllerin, so it is in a way 
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Don Basilio
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« Reply #868 on: 18:57:10, 22-10-2008 » |
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Poor old William Cowper was the C18 poet Victorians preferred, as sort of versified Charles Lamb, who they thought mellow and we find twee. Victorians of course, thought Cowper was so much more sincere than the terribly frivolous Alexander Pope.
And this is my queue to quote by heart from Pope's The Rape of the Lock. One young lady at the court of Queen Anne advises another who is upset at a young man making a pass at her.
Say, why are Beauties prais'd and honoured most, The wise man's passion and the vain man's toast? Why deck'd with all that land and sea afford, Why angels called and angel like, adored? But what are all these glories, all these gains Unless good sense maintain what beauty gains? O, if to dance all night and dress all day Charmed small pox and kept old age at bay, Who would not scorn the housewife's care to use, And who would learn one earthly thing of use?
But... since, alas, frail beauty must decay, Since curled or not curled, locks shall turn to grey, Since painted, or not painted, all shall fade, And she who scorns a man must die a maid, What then remains but well our power to use, And keep good humour still, whate'r we lose. And trust me, dear, good humour will prevail When airs and screams and flights and scolding fail. Beauties in vain their pretty eyes may roll. Charm strikes the sight, but merit wins the soul.
I have found myself quoting it to myself more since my locks turned to (iron) grey. Good humour is certainly not enough to get through life, but there is the moving suggestion that it is attained at some cost.
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« Last Edit: 12:15:44, 23-10-2008 by Don Basilio »
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven. A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
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SH
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« Reply #869 on: 11:05:40, 24-10-2008 » |
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Denise Riley
A MISREMEMBERED LYRIC
A misremembered lyric: a soft catch of its song whirrs in my throat. ‘Something’s gotta hold of my heart tearing my’ soul and my conscience apart, long after presence is clean gone and leaves unfurnished no shadow. Rain lyrics. Yes, then the rain lyrics fall. I don’t want absence to be this beautiful. It shouldn’t be; in fact I know it wasn’t, while ‘everything that consoles is false’ is off the point – you get no consolation anyway until your memory’s dead; or something never had gotten hold of your heart in the first place, and that’s the fear thought. Do shrimps make good mothers? Yes they do. There is no beauty out of loss; can’t do it – and once the falling rain starts on the upturned leaves, and I listen to the rhythm of unhappy pleasure what I hear is bossy death telling me which way to go, what I see is a pool with an eye in it. Still let me know. Looking for a brand-new start. Oh and never notice yourself ever. As in life you don’t.
(‘A misremembered lyric’ uses a phrase from ‘Rhythm of the Rain’ written by Gummoe, sung by The Cascades, and from ‘Something’s Gotta Hold Of My Heart’ by R.Cook and R. Greenaway, recorded by Gene Pitney; the poem also quotes a line from Graham Greene’s version of a 1930s song.)
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