SH
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« Reply #885 on: 13:52:58, 04-11-2008 » |
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I find the Hardy frustrating, especially the line 'I set every tree in my June-time'. I know what it means (what he wants it to mean), but it relies too much (for my liking) on the reader acquiescing in an imprecision caused by the attempt to render feeling and sense in a syntactical and expressive language which is not up to the task, or which has been insufficiently honed for the task. I'd rather have an ironic disjunction of the 'container' to the 'content' than this inept sincerity, though I'd prefer real sincerity to either if it could be shown to be possible.Hardy's curious. I'd agree with that about the poetry that looked to Hardy as a model of plainness, but I don't think I do about Hardy & the poem that Mary's posted. I do find ironic disjunction of the 'container' to the 'content' - if anything, perhaps, it's over-signalled. In lines 3-4 you have the very a-natural image of waltzers tossing their heads, presumably to attract a partner and then the line that bothers you continues that: "set in my June-time" stages the event, makes overt its theatricality. And I like the last line, which has a typical ghostliness: "And none will in time be seen" which could give and in time will disappear (worn figure of transience, although transience doesn't feel all that worn  ) or could give a multiple sense of the trees only being seen out of time plus, literally, the non-trees being seen in time. Not an Either/Or. Something like The Turn of the Screw. They are not there but they are there, in time, and can be seen. Which is unsettling.
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Don Basilio
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« Reply #886 on: 13:54:40, 04-11-2008 » |
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English poets do have a thing about dead trees, don't they?
William Cowper and his poplars
(The poplars are fell'd! farewell to the shade And the whispering sound of the cool colonnade; The winds play no longer and sing in the leaves, Nor Ouse on his bosom their image receives. )
Gerard Manley Hopkins and his poplars at Binsey (My aspens dear, whose airy cages quelled Quelled or quenched in leaves the leaping sun, All felled, felled, are all felled; Of a fresh and following folded rank Not spared, not one That dandled a sandalled Shadow that swam or sank On meadow and river and wind-wandering weed-winding bank. )
I heard the story of some poetry loving visitors to Oxford wanting to go and see the original poplars. Some people don't only not read poems, they don't even bother to read the title. (Binsey Poplars, felled 1879)
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven. A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
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SH
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« Reply #887 on: 13:59:45, 04-11-2008 » |
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Rich in Vitamin C
Under her brow the snowy wing-case delivers truly the surprise of days which slide under sunlight past loose glass in the door into the reflection of honour spread through the incomplete, the trusted. So darkly the stain skips as a livery of your pause like an apple pip, the baltic loved one who sleeps. Or as syrup in a cloud, down below in the cup, you excuse each folded cry of the finch's wit, this flush scattered over our slant of the day rocked in water, you say this much. A waver of attention at the surface, shews the arch there and the purpose we really cut; an ounce down by the water, which in cross-fire from injustice too large to hold he lets slither from starry fingers noting the herbal jolt of cordite and its echo: is this our screen, on some street we hardly guessed could mark an idea bred to idiocy by the clear sight-lines ahead. You come in by the same door, you carry what cannot be left for its own sweet shimmer of reason, its false blood; the same tint I hear with the pulse it touches and will not melt. Such shading of the rose to its stock tips the bolt from the sky, rising in its effect of what motto we call peace talks. And yes the quiet turn of your page is the day tilting so, faded in the light. J.H.Prynne
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time_is_now
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« Reply #888 on: 14:12:22, 04-11-2008 » |
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Thanks SH. I need to mull that over, but you may be right. I guess I'm aware of Hardy's irony, but that line in the second stanza seemed so patently contrived for the scansion that it seemed po-faced as it came. Which in itself makes his lyricism of the sentimental type, I'm aware. (I only recently discovered that Schiller's sentimental is subdivided into satire and elegy.)
And of course I'm a sucker for any pun with time in it, but they're plentiful enough for me to be choosy when the mood takes me.
I've often struggled with Prynne and I'll contemplate your latest over lunch (sausages and bacon, but I'm throwing in half a red pepper for the vitamin-rich experience). I haven't read that Jacket article yet either, but I haven't forgotten about it.
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
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Turfan Fragment
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« Reply #889 on: 18:10:29, 04-11-2008 » |
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The Ash Grove
Half of the grove stood dead, and those that yet lived made Little more than the dead ones made of shade. If they led to a house, long before they had seen its fall: But they welcomed me; I was glad without cause and delayed.
Scarce a hundred paces under the trees was the interval Paces each sweeter than sweetest miles but nothing at all, Not even the spirits of memory and fear with restless wing, Could climb down in to molest me over the wall
That I passed through at either end without noticing. And now an ash grove far from those hills can bring The same tranquillity in which I wander a ghost With a ghostly gladness, as if I heard a girl sing
The song of the Ash Grove soft as love uncrossed, And then in a crowd or in distance it were lost, But the moment unveiled something unwilling to die And I had what most I desired, without search or desert or cost.
For some reason this reminds me of Gerhard Rühm's 'recompositions' of poets whom he did not admire. He would take all the words from a particularly bad poem (in this case, Anton Wildgans -- whom some people do find a good poet), and rearranging them to form new texts that would mean something different and yet somehow underline the stylistic problems with the original (e.g., putting all the words that are used too often right next to one another, as in und immer und immer und ) I'll see if I can round up my example; Rühm's version is hilarious. One of the deadliest things in a bad poem is when certain words are inadequately contemplated and simply become overused, even trivial words like 'und'
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time_is_now
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« Reply #890 on: 17:37:53, 05-11-2008 » |
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Here's the opinion-dividing Dylan (no not that one!) - it was the first thing that came to mind (I'm just 11 hours into my own thirtieth year after all ... or is he just starting his thirty-first here??).
POEM IN OCTOBER
It was my thirtieth year to heaven Woke to my hearing from harbour and neighbour wood And the mussel pooled and the heron Priested shore The morning beckon With water praying and call of seagull and rook And the knock of sailing boats on the webbed wall Myself to set foot That second In the still sleeping town and set forth.
My birthday began with the water- Birds and the birds of the winged trees flying my name Above the farms and the white horses And I rose In a rainy autumn And walked abroad in shower of all my days High tide and the heron dived when I took the road Over the border And the gates Of the town closed as the town awoke.
A springful of larks in a rolling Cloud and the roadside bushes brimming with whistling Blackbirds and the sun of October Summery On the hill's shoulder, Here were fond climates and sweet singers suddenly Come in the morning where I wandered and listened To the rain wringing Wind blow cold In the wood faraway under me.
Pale rain over the dwindling harbour And over the sea wet church the size of a snail With its horns through mist and the castle Brown as owls But all the gardens Of spring and summer were blooming in the tall tales Beyond the border and under the lark full cloud. There could I marvel My birthday Away but the weather turned around.
It turned away from the blithe country And down the other air and the blue altered sky Streamed again a wonder of summer With apples Pears and red currants And I saw in the turning so clearly a child's Forgotten mornings when he walked with his mother Through the parables Of sunlight And the legends of the green chapels
And the twice told fields of infancy That his tears burned my cheeks and his heart moved in mine. These were the woods the river and the sea Where a boy In the listening Summertime of the dead whispered the truth of his joy To the trees and the stones and the fish in the tide. And the mystery Sang alive Still in the water and singing birds.
And there could I marvel my birthday Away but the weather turned around. And the true Joy of the long dead child sang burning In the sun. It was my thirtieth Year to heaven stood there then in the summer noon Though the town below lay leaved with October blood. O may my heart's truth Still be sung On this high hill in a year's turning.
-- Dylan Thomas
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« Last Edit: 17:39:27, 05-11-2008 by time_is_now »
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
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Antheil
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« Reply #891 on: 17:56:22, 05-11-2008 » |
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That is beautiful tinners.
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Reality, sa molesworth 2, is so sordid it makes me shudder
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Mary Chambers
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« Reply #892 on: 18:00:27, 05-11-2008 » |
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There was once a correspondence in a newspaper - possibly The Guardian - about the most beautiful lines in English poetry, and someone suggested the start of the third stanza of Poem in October, "a springful of larks in a rolling cloud". I don't think so, though I like the poem. The most beautiful line to me is Shakespeare, from Sonnet 73, "Bare ruined choirs where late the sweet birds sang". Not an academic exercise, I know, and not intended to be. (Happy birthday, tinners  Do you feel old yet?)
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Don Basilio
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« Reply #893 on: 18:16:22, 05-11-2008 » |
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Don't be silly, Mary, he's not old. Just maturing nicely. Bit like us, really.
This is a message for SH, (SH, can you hear me?) to say thank you for the Troilus and Criesyde. I did vast amounts of Chaucer in the fifth and sixth forms and at university, but usually Canterbury Tales. I knew about the close of Troilus, but I hadn't seen it for years.
My most beautiful line, or couplet? From The Dunciad
To happy convents, bosom'd deep in vines Where slumber abbots, purple as their wines.
Pope is describing the Grand Tour to Italy. I prefer Italy to Wales. Sorry, but there it is.
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven. A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
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Antheil
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« Reply #894 on: 18:28:57, 05-11-2008 » |
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I prefer Italy to Wales. Sorry, but there it is.
And do they have rum and lavabread in Italy? Enquired Second Voice Drowned.
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Reality, sa molesworth 2, is so sordid it makes me shudder
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SH
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« Reply #895 on: 22:15:44, 05-11-2008 » |
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Don Basilio
Do you know Robert Henryson's Testament of Cresseid? That's a bleak, wonderful poem.
Oh those couplets of Pope's. To think in couplets ....
The thing about Wales, I'm sure, is that it's much more Welsh than Italy is. Or could ever be. Or something.
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Don Basilio
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« Reply #896 on: 11:51:05, 06-11-2008 » |
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Now someone has encouraged me, here's the bit of The Rape of the Lock I've been meaning to put on ever since I spoke to a board member in the summer who is the only person I know to describe herself as a feminist who enjoyed wearing an C18 corset to play Vivaldi.
Toilet does not have its non-U meaning here.
And now, unveil'd, the Toilet stands display'd, Each Silver Vase in mystic Order laid. First, rob'd in White, the Nymph intent adores With Head uncover'd, the Cosmetic Pow'rs. A heav'nly Image in the Glass appears, To that she bends, to that her Eyes she rears; Th' inferior Priestess, at her Altar's side, Trembling, begins the sacred Rites of Pride. Unnumber'd Treasures ope at once, and here The various Off'rings of the World appear; From each she nicely culls with curious Toil, And decks the Goddess with the glitt'ring Spoil. This casket India's glowing Gems unlocks, And all Arabia breathes from yonder Box. The Tortoise here and Elephant unite, Transform'd to Combs, the speckled and the white. Here Files of Pins extend their shining Rows, Puffs, Powders, Patches, Bibles, Billet-doux.
The line And all Arabia breathes from yonder Box is another of my candidates for the most beautiful line in English poetry.
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« Last Edit: 11:53:46, 06-11-2008 by Don Basilio »
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven. A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
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Don Basilio
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« Reply #897 on: 11:55:58, 06-11-2008 » |
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SH, I have read Henryson in my time. I think there's a student copy back at my mum's which I'll try to look out on my next visit. Also Dunbar. (Anty - I know they're not Welsh, but they are Scots, so that's something.)
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven. A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
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Antheil
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« Reply #898 on: 18:42:20, 07-11-2008 » |
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I love The Rape of the Lock, so funny, have just got my copy of Pope out now. It is a rather lovely tooled leather and gilded 1866 edition of his Poetical Works illustrated by John Gilbert, edited by the Rev. H.F. Cary, how it may differ from other earlier/later versions I do not know.
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Reality, sa molesworth 2, is so sordid it makes me shudder
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Don Basilio
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« Reply #899 on: 20:50:57, 07-11-2008 » |
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Glad you like the Rape of the Lock, anty.
I got to know it before I had ever heard of feminism, and I have this awful suspicion that it might be irredemibly sexist. (SH, I know you're a straight bloke, but you're pretty damn bright and I would be glad to have your opinion.)
Did your Victorian clergyman (I think Cary did the standard blank verse version of Dante) include in his edition the lines
O hads't thou, cruel, been content to seize Hairs out of sight, or any hairs but these.
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If he did, it is complete and a tooled and gilded edition sounds just right.
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« Last Edit: 21:32:30, 07-11-2008 by Don Basilio »
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven. A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
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