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Author Topic: Poetry Appreciation Thread.  (Read 19823 times)
Turfan Fragment
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Posts: 1330


Formerly known as Chafing Dish


« Reply #900 on: 21:27:25, 07-11-2008 »

We interrupt this otherwise stimulating discussion for a little Yanni's Rituals

an excerpt from the long poem/soliloquy

HELEN

Nowadays I forget the names I knew best, or get them all mixed up—
Paris, Menelaus, Achilles, Proteus, Theoklymenos, Tefkros,
Castor and Polydeuces—my moralizing brothers, who, I gather
have turned into stars—so they say—pilot-lights for ships—Theseus, Pireitheus,
Andromache, Cassandra, Agamemnon—sounds, only formless sounds,
their images unwritten on a window pane
or a metal mirror or on the shallows of a beach, like that time
on a quiet sunny day, with myriads of masts, after the battle
had abated, and the creaking of the wet ropes on the pulleys
hauled the world up high, like the knot of a sob arrested
in a crystalline throat—you could see it sparkling, trembling
without becoming a scream, and suddenly the entire landscape, the ships,
the sailors and the chariots, were sinking into light and anonymity.

Now, another deeper, darker submersion—out of which
some sounds emerge now and then—when hammers were pounding wood
and nailing together a new trireme in a small shipyard; when a huge
four-horse chariot was passing by on the stone road, adding to the ticks
from the cathedral clock in another duration, as though
there were more, much more than twelve hours and the horses
were turning around in the clock until they were exhausted; or when one night
two handsome young men were below my windows, singing
a song for me, without words—one of them one-eyed; the other
wearing a huge buckle on his belt—gleaming in the moonlight.

Words don't come to me on their own now—I search them out as though I'm translating
from a language I don't know—nevertheless, I do translate. Between the words,
and within them, are deep holes; I peer through them as though
I'm peering through the knots which have fallen from the boards of a door
completely closed up, nailed here for ages. I don't see a thing.

[help, I can't seem to stop!]

No more words or names; I can only single out some sounds—a silver candlestick
or a crystal vase rings by itself and all of a sudden stops
pretending it knows nothing, that it didn't ring, that nobody
struck it, or passed by it. A dress collapses softly from the chair onto the floor, diverting
attention from the previous sound to the simplicity of nothing. However,
the idea of a silent conspiracy, although diffused in air,
floats densely higher up, almost levelled out,
so that you feel the etching of the lines around your mouth grow deeper
precisely because of this presence of an intruder who takes over your position
turning you into an intruder, right here on your own bed, in your own room.

translation: Gwendolyn MacEwen and Nikos Tsingos
« Last Edit: 21:29:35, 07-11-2008 by Turfan Fragment » Logged

Turfan Fragment
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Posts: 1330


Formerly known as Chafing Dish


« Reply #901 on: 05:57:51, 08-11-2008 »

Now for something completely different

This Last Pain

This last pain for the damned the Fathers found:
'They knew the bliss with which they were not crowned.'
  Such, but on earth, let me foretell,
  Is all, of heaven or of hell.

Man, as the prying housemaid of the soul,
May know her happiness by eye to hole:
  He's safe; the key is lost; he knows
  Door will not open, nor hole close.

'What is conceivable can happen too,'
Said Wittgenstein, who had not dreamt of you;
  But wisely; if we worked it long
  We should forget where it was wrong.

Those thorns are crowns which, woven into knots,
Crackle under and soon boil fool's pots;
  And no man's watching, wise and long,
  Would ever stare them into song.

Thorns burn to a consistent ash, like man;
A splendid cleanser for the frying-pan:
  And those who leap from pan to fire
  Should this brave opposite admire.

All those large dreams by which men long live well
Are magic-lanterned on the smoke of hell;
  This then is real, I have implied,
  A painted, small, transparent slide.

These the inventive can hand-paint at leisure,
Or most emporia would stock our measure;
  And feasting in their dappled shade
  We should forget how they were made.

Feign then what's by a decent tact believed
And act that state is only so conceived,
  And build an edifice of form
  For house where phantoms may keep warm.

Imagine, then, by miracle, with me,
(Ambiguous gifts, as what gods give must be)
  What could not possibly be there,
  And learn a style from a despair.


--William Empson
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SH
***
Posts: 101



« Reply #902 on: 10:04:27, 08-11-2008 »

I have this awful suspicion that it might be irredemibly sexist.  (SH, I know you're a straight bloke, but you're pretty damn bright and I would be glad to have your opinion.)

A quick Google (motto: you surf, we spy) gives this http://library.marist.edu/faculty-web-pages/morreale/Eighteenth-Century/Supp-Reading-List.htm

I don't know. Irremediably sexist? I suppose the obvious response would be to say that the poem flickers betwen delight* & repulsion**, but I'm not sure I'd trust that as an answer. There's nothing to be said (or I wouldn't say anything) for a political correctness litmus test, and the outward-darkening of anything that fails it. But I might just be protecting the stuff I like. (Re-run New Musicology argument no. 999?)

*Oddly, I typed delete for delight. What do it all mean?

** Swift's A Beautiful Young Nymph Going to Bed where a not so young not so nymph does her morning after the night before toilette & literally disembodies herself as a glass eye and false eyebrows (mouse fur) & Swift knows what else get plucked out, wrenched off. Surely, there, misogyny glares into universal bodily disgust?

"Pretty damn bright." Have you tried adjusting the brightness setting for the monitor? Smiley It's all an illusion I'm afraid.

"I know you're a straight bloke." It's true.



 Cheesy

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Mrs. Kerfoops
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Gender: Female
Posts: 63



« Reply #903 on: 15:05:09, 14-11-2008 »

Was not the author of this rather too popular for his own good?

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Baziron
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Posts: 88


May the Force be with you.


« Reply #904 on: 09:36:58, 15-11-2008 »

Was not the author of this rather too popular for his own good?


"Popularity" or "Primitive beliefs"?

Baziron
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SH
***
Posts: 101



« Reply #905 on: 10:00:52, 15-11-2008 »

THE ECSTACY.
by John Donne


WHERE, like a pillow on a bed,
    A pregnant bank swell'd up, to rest
The violet's reclining head,
    Sat we two, one another's best.

Our hands were firmly cemented
    By a fast balm, which thence did spring ;
Our eye-beams twisted, and did thread
    Our eyes upon one double string.

So to engraft our hands, as yet
    Was all the means to make us one ;
And pictures in our eyes to get
    Was all our propagation.

As, 'twixt two equal armies, Fate
    Suspends uncertain victory,
Our souls—which to advance their state,
    Were gone out—hung 'twixt her and me.

And whilst our souls negotiate there,
    We like sepulchral statues lay ;
All day, the same our postures were,
    And we said nothing, all the day.

If any, so by love refined,
    That he soul's language understood,
And by good love were grown all mind,
    Within convenient distance stood,

He—though he knew not which soul spake,
    Because both meant, both spake the same—
Might thence a new concoction take,
    And part far purer than he came.

This ecstasy doth unperplex
    (We said) and tell us what we love ;
We see by this, it was not sex ;
    We see, we saw not, what did move :

But as all several souls contain
    Mixture of things they know not what,
Love these mix'd souls doth mix again,
    And makes both one, each this, and that.

A single violet transplant,
    The strength, the colour, and the size—
All which before was poor and scant—
    Redoubles still, and multiplies.

When love with one another so
    Interanimates two souls,
That abler soul, which thence doth flow,
    Defects of loneliness controls.

We then, who are this new soul, know,
    Of what we are composed, and made,
For th' atomies of which we grow
    Are souls, whom no change can invade.

But, O alas ! so long, so far,
    Our bodies why do we forbear?
They are ours, though not we ; we are
    Th' intelligences, they the spheres.

We owe them thanks, because they thus
    Did us, to us, at first convey,
Yielded their senses' force to us,
    Nor are dross to us, but allay.

On man heaven's influence works not so,
    But that it first imprints the air ;
For soul into the soul may flow,
    Though it to body first repair.

As our blood labours to beget
    Spirits, as like souls as it can ;
Because such fingers need to knit
    That subtle knot, which makes us man ;

So must pure lovers' souls descend
    To affections, and to faculties,
Which sense may reach and apprehend,
    Else a great prince in prison lies.

To our bodies turn we then, that so
    Weak men on love reveal'd may look ;
Love's mysteries in souls do grow,
    But yet the body is his book.

And if some lover, such as we,
    Have heard this dialogue of one,
Let him still mark us, he shall see
    Small change when we're to bodies gone.
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SH
***
Posts: 101



« Reply #906 on: 10:07:20, 15-11-2008 »

Peter Manson

Listening to John Cage's Twenty-Eight


A the the the The the

mirror hung so as to intersect
curtain which has
same aspect ratio as
mirror.
mirror is
same size and shape as
adjacent photo of my father in 1945 recovering from malaria in Malaya.
ceiling does not look like my father nor does
key hung on
mirror. I do not look like my father yet. I do not know what
mirror looks like.

an The the the the
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harmonyharmony
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Posts: 4080



WWW
« Reply #907 on: 10:11:20, 15-11-2008 »

Thanks SH.
A lovely duo for a Saturday morning.
I've always loved Donne's poetry and that Manson is very nice.
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'is this all we can do?'
anonymous student of the University of Berkeley, California quoted in H. Draper, 'The new student revolt' (New York: Grove Press, 1965)
http://www.myspace.com/itensemble
SH
***
Posts: 101



« Reply #908 on: 10:22:04, 15-11-2008 »

Thanks SH.
A lovely duo for a Saturday morning.
I've always loved Donne's poetry and that Manson is very nice.

Thanks HH

Yes, Donne is a miracle Smiley

Apart from some difficulties seeing straight and typing words in the conventional alphabetical order today's better than yesterday.

Being human is an odd thing, and a mixed blessing (I won't estimate the percentages at the moment Undecided).

Peter Manson has a website, if you're interested:

http://www.petermanson.com/

All the best

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strinasacchi
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Gender: Female
Posts: 864


« Reply #909 on: 10:48:05, 15-11-2008 »

Thank you, particularly for the Donne, SH - I used to have that one memorized.  It was my favourite poem ever when I was about 17.
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time_is_now
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Posts: 4653



« Reply #910 on: 17:57:49, 15-11-2008 »

Thanks for the lovely poems, SH.
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
SusanDoris
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Posts: 267



« Reply #911 on: 18:07:36, 15-11-2008 »

Mods: Please move this somewhere else if you think it would be better to do so. Thanks.

My computer has been doing odd things this last week or so and the software has not let me access this thread. One of the particular reasons I wanted to do so is to find the post where TP (I think it was TP) put a cartoon of someone skipping. About page 48 I think. I would like to ask where I can find cartoons which I can transfer free on to my website and would be most grateful for any help on this. .
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Turfan Fragment
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Posts: 1330


Formerly known as Chafing Dish


« Reply #912 on: 18:26:10, 15-11-2008 »

Next time in town I will buy myself ropes. I see at first if I can skip with the rope.



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Don Basilio
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Posts: 2682


Era solo un mio sospetto


« Reply #913 on: 18:32:49, 15-11-2008 »

What does Susandoris have to do next?

Right click on the image, then press Save, and save in a convenient place?  (You probably know this already, SD.  Just trying to help)
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
SusanDoris
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Posts: 267



« Reply #914 on: 19:30:59, 15-11-2008 »

What does Susandoris have to do next?

Right click on the image, then press Save, and save in a convenient place?  (You probably know this already, SD.  Just trying to help)

No, I didn't know what to do next!
Thank you very much, Turfan Fragment and Don Basilio. Much appreciated.
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