The Radio 3 Boards Forum from myforum365.com
06:24:13, 03-12-2008 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Whilst we happily welcome all genuine applications to our forum, there may be times when we need to suspend registration temporarily, for example when suffering attacks of spam.
 If you want to join us but find that the temporary suspension has been activated, please try again later.
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  

Pages: 1 [2] 3
  Print  
Author Topic: The Page Turners - Radio 4  (Read 995 times)
oliver sudden
Admin/Moderator Group
*****
Posts: 6412



« Reply #15 on: 19:41:38, 14-08-2007 »

increpatio, I did in fact once turn up at a concert by one of our Members expecting to be in the audience and found myself sitting on stage with among other things an aleatoric score in front of me. The Member in question had planned a path through the score which involved for example removing a page and then putting it back again after the next page had been played while removing a page from behind it. All this without being dressed for the gig. And then there came a piece where the composer had choreographed the fingerings so carefully that the pianist's elbows would fly up without warning as for example the left little finger played notes higher than the left thumb. I don't know if said composer had incorporated as a parameter the likelihood of the pianist's elbow striking the page-turner in the groin on its flight but I wouldn't put it past him.
Logged
increpatio
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 2544


‫‬‭‮‪‫‬‭‮


« Reply #16 on: 19:51:48, 14-08-2007 »

increpatio, I did in fact once turn up at a concert by one of our Members expecting to be in the audience and found myself sitting on stage with among other things an aleatoric score in front of me. The Member in question had planned a path through the score which involved for example removing a page and then putting it back again after the next page had been played while removing a page from behind it. All this without being dressed for the gig. And then there came a piece where the composer had choreographed the fingerings so carefully that the pianist's elbows would fly up without warning as for example the left little finger played notes higher than the left thumb. I don't know if said composer had incorporated as a parameter the likelihood of the pianist's elbow striking the page-turner in the groin on its flight but I wouldn't put it past him.

Oh my!
Logged

‫‬‭‮‪‫‬‭‮
sambeckett
**
Posts: 51


« Reply #17 on: 21:03:06, 14-08-2007 »

increpatio, I did in fact once turn up at a concert by one of our Members expecting to be in the audience and found myself sitting on stage with among other things an aleatoric score in front of me. The Member in question had planned a path through the score which involved for example removing a page and then putting it back again after the next page had been played while removing a page from behind it. All this without being dressed for the gig. And then there came a piece where the composer had choreographed the fingerings so carefully that the pianist's elbows would fly up without warning as for example the left little finger played notes higher than the left thumb. I don't know if said composer had incorporated as a parameter the likelihood of the pianist's elbow striking the page-turner in the groin on its flight but I wouldn't put it past him.

If this is indeed the piece I think you are talk about, I have actually witnessed a groin-striking (albeit in reherasal, not performance) during this piece.  Grin
Logged

What's empirical about sound? You can't write an article about it in die Reihe, that's for sure.
Jonathan
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 1473


Still Lisztening...


WWW
« Reply #18 on: 21:06:24, 14-08-2007 »

I turned pages in a lecture recital about Messiaen and it is a truly scary experience (one of the Vingt Regards)!  Having said that, I had a page turner in one of my recitals who didn't even read music (my regular page turner was ill and dropped out)
Logged

Best regards,
Jonathan
*********************************************
"as the housefly of destiny collides with the windscreen of fate..."
Ian Pace
Temporary Restriction
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 4190



« Reply #19 on: 21:28:41, 14-08-2007 »

increpatio, I did in fact once turn up at a concert by one of our Members expecting to be in the audience and found myself sitting on stage with among other things an aleatoric score in front of me. The Member in question had planned a path through the score which involved for example removing a page and then putting it back again after the next page had been played while removing a page from behind it. All this without being dressed for the gig. And then there came a piece where the composer had choreographed the fingerings so carefully that the pianist's elbows would fly up without warning as for example the left little finger played notes higher than the left thumb. I don't know if said composer had incorporated as a parameter the likelihood of the pianist's elbow striking the page-turner in the groin on its flight but I wouldn't put it past him.
It is time to own up to being the Member in question who rendered on this occasion (and others) a certain piece by one Member quartertone that could be interpreted as entering into a somewhat problematic, antagonistic and physically defamiliarising relationship with its page turner's pride and joy. I do not believe this is an intentional component of the piece, though (if it were a piece by Hespos I might think differently on that subject).  Also, the aleatoric score in question is Gilbert Amy's fantastic Piano Sonata, a very little known work, clearly influenced by the Boulez 3rd, but on a much more complex level (in the most banal sense, it uses five colours where Boulez uses two). The open form procedures are themselves quite complex, and only a turner such as Member Sudden would be able to navigate the various backs and forths involved (Thanks!).

Now, 'sambeckett', are you who I think you are? Did you witness the incident in question this very year? Grin

By the way, I did once suggest to Dieter Schnebel the idea of a piece for solo page-turner (bearing in mind his work Nostalgie for solo conductor, and the piece from the Visible Music series for solo instrumentalist and conductor). Nothing has come of that suggestion to date, to the best of my knowledge, though.

A certain Member Lenz here has an instruction saying 'Page turner turns page as if in slow motion', which could be seen as a step in this direction.
« Last Edit: 21:30:43, 14-08-2007 by Ian Pace » Logged

'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
aaron cassidy
****
Posts: 499



WWW
« Reply #20 on: 21:45:12, 14-08-2007 »

As a small aside, I once turned pages for Member Pace in Buffalo a few yrs back.  It was, w/o any doubt, the most frightening and nerve-wracking experience of my life.  Ferneyhough's Opus Contra Naturam, on three staves, none registrally separated (so any register might appear at any moment on any staff).  I have, quite literally, never concentrated so hard in my life.  Member Pace did indeed attempt to give a healthy nod when he wanted the page turned, but he was so busy flailing about that it was often unclear which head motions were page turn cues.

I don't think I was ever at risk of being elbowed, but ... it was quite an adventure, in any case.


Logged
George Garnett
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 3855



« Reply #21 on: 21:49:42, 14-08-2007 »

A certain Member Lenz here has an instruction saying 'Page turner turns page as if in slow motion'

"As if" in slow motion but not actually in slow motion Shocked. Ms Lenz's requests can be very specialised. "Quasi-deliquescent ma non troppo" IIRC?
Logged
Ian Pace
Temporary Restriction
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 4190



« Reply #22 on: 21:53:18, 14-08-2007 »

As a small aside, I once turned pages for Member Pace in Buffalo a few yrs back.  It was, w/o any doubt, the most frightening and nerve-wracking experience of my life.  Ferneyhough's Opus Contra Naturam, on three staves, none registrally separated (so any register might appear at any moment on any staff).  I have, quite literally, never concentrated so hard in my life.  Member Pace did indeed attempt to give a healthy nod when he wanted the page turned, but he was so busy flailing about that it was often unclear which head motions were page turn cues.

I don't think I was ever at risk of being elbowed, but ... it was quite an adventure, in any case.
If I say I don't 'remember' your turning (I remember that you were, but don't remember anything about it), I hope you will know that that is the highest compliment for a turner! But trust me, turning for OCN is child's play compared to turning for a certain panting piece (or an Amy Sonata) Wink

Also, if any of you have had the misfortune to turn for the Sciarrino First Sonata, a piece I've done many times, you'll know how scary that one can be as well.... Smiley
Logged

'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
oliver sudden
Admin/Moderator Group
*****
Posts: 6412



« Reply #23 on: 21:57:52, 14-08-2007 »

I turned pages in a lecture recital about Messiaen and it is a truly scary experience (one of the Vingt Regards)!

Harawi is another potentially risky one for the page-turner's future reproductive capacities. Especially the movement which has all those horn fanfares in the middle register punctuated by sudden (no not Sudden) plunges to Messiaen's favourite lowest A-Bb-B mini-cluster. Have to watch for those.

piapiapiapiapiapiapiapiapiapiapiapiapiapiapiapiadoundoutchiltchiltchil...
Logged
aaron cassidy
****
Posts: 499



WWW
« Reply #24 on: 22:14:18, 14-08-2007 »

As a small aside, I once turned pages for Member Pace in Buffalo a few yrs back.  It was, w/o any doubt, the most frightening and nerve-wracking experience of my life.  Ferneyhough's Opus Contra Naturam, on three staves, none registrally separated (so any register might appear at any moment on any staff).  I have, quite literally, never concentrated so hard in my life.  Member Pace did indeed attempt to give a healthy nod when he wanted the page turned, but he was so busy flailing about that it was often unclear which head motions were page turn cues.

I don't think I was ever at risk of being elbowed, but ... it was quite an adventure, in any case.
If I say I don't 'remember' your turning (I remember that you were, but don't remember anything about it), I hope you will know that that is the highest compliment for a turner! But trust me, turning for OCN is child's play compared to turning for a certain panting piece (or an Amy Sonata) Wink

Also, if any of you have had the misfortune to turn for the Sciarrino First Sonata, a piece I've done many times, you'll know how scary that one can be as well.... Smiley

One you might remember was a concert in Chicago (damn close to a decade ago, now) where my friend Fred turned pages for you (on some typically Pace-esque concert of Finnissy, Xenkais, Ferneyhough, etc., etc., etc.).  He got impossibly lost on Chris Fox's lliK.relliK ... multiple page turn screw ups, frantic thrashing at the score to turn back to the proper page ....

I can actually imagine that one being much more difficult to turn for than OCN or STARTS!  Must admit that I don't know the Amy (I'm guessing it's no huge loss, from what I know of his work), but if it required Sudden-esque skills, it must indeed be something special, at least from a page-turning perspective.



What I remember most about the OCN turning experience, actually, was the bizarre circumstances in the concert.  (This might now ring a bell ...)  J.T. had turned pages for the rest of the recital (which, btw, led to the most bizarre concert review I've ever read (re Kagel MM 51)).  The penultimate piece was my miniatures (which, for the record, involve no page turn problems!) ....  After you played, I got up, took my bow w/ you, we went off stage together (w/ J.T.), and then I came back on to turn for the Ferneyhough, b/c poor J.T. couldn't do it.  It was a strange experience to go from composer to page turner while backstage -- had to quickly put one set of nerves behind me and bring out a new set in about 30 seconds time. 

I remember being absolutely horrified that I'd screw it up!  It's one thing to muck up page turning, but there's extra pressure when your piece had just been played minutes earlier.
Logged
eruanto
Guest
« Reply #25 on: 22:24:25, 14-08-2007 »

brrr.... it's a horrible thing to turn pages for pianists. Fortunately I haven't had to do it in concerts, but recordings are even more pressured. I always bugler it up....

Back in 2005 I turned for Hamelin recording Abel Decaux for Hyperion. Terribly complicated stuff for all concerned. Worst of all, when he finished the complete take of the last movement, which ended with a long sustained chord gradually fading into the æther, my tummy decided to have a good gurgle (luckily during the silence). The mic's picked it up.  Embarrassed Of course they removed it, but all the same... not to be repeated...
Logged
martle
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 6685



« Reply #26 on: 22:26:08, 14-08-2007 »

not to be repeated...

As you say, eru. As you say.  Grin
Logged

Green. Always green.
Ian Pace
Temporary Restriction
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 4190



« Reply #27 on: 22:29:09, 14-08-2007 »

One you might remember was a concert in Chicago (damn close to a decade ago, now) where my friend Fred turned pages for you (on some typically Pace-esque concert of Finnissy, Xenkais, Ferneyhough, etc., etc., etc.).  He got impossibly lost on Chris Fox's lliK.relliK ... multiple page turn screw ups, frantic thrashing at the score to turn back to the proper page ....

I'm pretty positive it was Fox's More Light (beautiful piece, for those who don't know it), not lliK.relliK? I do remember the concert well, and don't remember a problem in that piece (but this is eight years ago). Poor Fred had to negotiate not just that, but also Barrett Tract, Dench Topologies and Finnissy English Country-Tunes all in the one programme. He did a sterling job!

Oh dear, I worry I might be know as a page-turner's nightmare. Can I plead that it's the composer's fault, not mine (I do play most of the notes on the page, I think)?  Wink There was one time I sent a page-turner away, when they couldn't even follow the Webern Variations in rehearsal, which suggested that Stockhausen Klavierstück X might be a bit of an ordeal.

One story I may not have related here before, involving other extra characters on stage, was when I did Patrícia Sucena Almeida's piece fatus hominis in Oslo. This piece requires the pianist to be on stage in complete darkness except for a light on the music stand. When they walk on stage there is a candle which they light before playing. Standing at the back of the stage are two mysterious figures wearing gowns with hoods - at the end of the piece these two individuals come up to the pianist and one covers him/her with their hood, whilst the other blows the candle out. Heavy goth-style imagery (that's very much her thing); problem was that the two figures in question, who on this occasion were played by Messrs Barrett and Foerisdal (Norwegian guitarist) both looked exactly like the Grim Reaper figure from Monty Python's The Meaning of Life. This theatre piece is supposed to be very atmospheric, bleak, somewhat disturbing, but when confronted by these two individuals just before walking on, it was very hard for all three to avoid rolling all around the floor in mad laughter, a repeat of a situation in the rehearsal which had somewhat perturbed the composer! Wink Straight faces were maintained in the performance, but not without considerable effort.....  Roll Eyes
« Last Edit: 22:33:15, 14-08-2007 by Ian Pace » Logged

'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
Chafing Dish
Guest
« Reply #28 on: 22:36:22, 14-08-2007 »

I turned pages for Nic Hodges on Opus Contra Naturam -- it wasn't that bad, really, especially with the spoken portions to watch out for...
Logged
autoharp
*****
Posts: 2778



« Reply #29 on: 00:16:37, 15-08-2007 »

By the way, I did once suggest to Dieter Schnebel the idea of a piece for solo page-turner (bearing in mind his work Nostalgie for solo conductor, and the piece from the Visible Music series for solo instrumentalist and conductor). Nothing has come of that suggestion to date, to the best of my knowledge, though.

George Brecht's 2nd symphony fits the bill . . .
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3
  Print  
 
Jump to: