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Author Topic: The Page Turners - Radio 4  (Read 995 times)
George Garnett
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« on: 08:04:29, 14-08-2007 »

Just spotted there's a little 15 minute programme at 9.30 this morning on "the lives of professional page-turners, the musician's aides whose workload seems simple but on whom a performance can hinge". Very Radio 4. 

Looks just right for a cup of coffee and an osborne (that's in the biscuit sense by the way).

One of the things I admire about page turners is their technique of getting on and off the stage without appearing either to share in the applause or looking pathologically shifty. Quite a skill that.
« Last Edit: 08:52:21, 14-08-2007 by George Garnett » Logged
Sydney Grew
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« Reply #1 on: 09:14:47, 14-08-2007 »

A few years ago a rather good homosexualistical cinematographic film was made after a rather less good novel ("The Page Turner") by David Leavitt. It examines in intimate detail the emotional relationship between two virtuosi and their young turner who while he aspired did not in the end have the requisite temperament.

Having Googled just now we find that the French have heterosexualized it in a second cinematographic work - not the same thing at all we should think.
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #2 on: 09:29:01, 14-08-2007 »

One of the things I admire about page turners is their technique of getting on and off the stage without appearing either to share in the applause or looking pathologically shifty. Quite a skill that.

Of course there are various ways around that. For me joining in the applause is not one of them. The best technique as far as I'm concerned is to arrive on stage after the anticipatory applause has finished and to leave a discreet distance behind the performer - but without running the risk of them catching you still on stage as they come out for the next salvo of bows.

Unfortunately it's one of those tasks where if someone notices you you've done something wrong. That doesn't stop it sometimes being as stressful as playing.
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Kittybriton
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« Reply #3 on: 13:47:02, 14-08-2007 »

... a rather good homosexualistical cinematographic film ...

I can't believe I'm reading this in a Sydney G. post! Does this mean that somewhere in the Grew subconscious dictionary of scurrilous grammatical misdeeds there lurks a "burglarized"? or perhaps even a "targetted"?
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No, I'm not a complete idiot. I'm only a halfwit. In fact I'm actually a catfish.
trained-pianist
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« Reply #4 on: 13:51:35, 14-08-2007 »

I feel akward while page turning. It would be better if page turner would not be seeing, but how to do that?

Page turner is important part of performance. I had a few bad page turners that nearly ruined my performance. After the experience I now train myself to turn pages.
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Mary Chambers
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« Reply #5 on: 14:22:27, 14-08-2007 »

It's difficult to turn pages well - it's always terrified me! I find the thought that the performance could be spoiled by the page-turner too much to cope with.
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roslynmuse
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« Reply #6 on: 14:35:41, 14-08-2007 »

I gave one of my students a certificate of competence after she turned pages for all the exams I played for this summer. The only moment when she drew attention to herself was when a rather shaky harpsichord desk collapsed as she placed the score on it and it crashed down over the two manuals (coupled, I might add, for additional Vivaldian brilliance...)

I have heard horror stories from organists for whom page-turners often double as stop-pullers. The slightest animosity between player and "technician" could result in a rude awakening for a meditating audience...
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David_Underdown
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« Reply #7 on: 15:02:49, 14-08-2007 »

I got pressed into page turning several times for choral society concerts my Dad was singing in, often it was at the organ, so I was invisible anyway.  Fortunately no major mishaps to report though.  hadn't done it for some years, but then earlier this year was singing on a visiting choir gig at Sheffield Cathedral when the organist leant over shrotly before the end of the service to ask if I could come and turn for him during the voluntary (unusually the console is at floor level, immediately adjacent to the Cantoris stalls), so I processed out with everyone else, dropping off the back of the procession as it turned left to go into the vestry, strted turning, and then get asked to pull the stops as well.  Fortunately again managed without mishap.
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David
George Garnett
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« Reply #8 on: 15:50:16, 14-08-2007 »

organists for whom page-turners often double as stop-pullers.

Is that what organ aficionados refer to as the 'registrant'? It's a term that I've never been entirely sure of but have always been too embarrassed to ask when in the company of those that would know.
« Last Edit: 16:00:28, 14-08-2007 by George Garnett » Logged
David_Underdown
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« Reply #9 on: 15:53:41, 14-08-2007 »

I believe so George
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David
increpatio
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« Reply #10 on: 17:26:36, 14-08-2007 »

In the concert by Jonathan Powell back a few months back, I was constantly on edge for much of the first part (Ives and the first Hinton) beacuse it seemed the pages were sticking together a lot; in any event, the page-turner was constantly in the fore-front and a cause of no small anxiety to myself.  Didn't effect my enjoyment of the music too much.

At another concert I was at recently, the page-turner was announced by the commentator and applauded (not by me!) as she walked onto the stage.  What's the world coming to, eh?
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martle
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« Reply #11 on: 17:43:42, 14-08-2007 »

I've turned pages, as well as having had them turned for me. And it's one hell of a tricky business. THE problem, of course, is that the turner must sit on the pianist's left in order not to block the audience's view. This of course means a fair old reach to grab the *top right hand corner* of the page, without blocking the pianist's view of the music. So no wearing of jackets, since, as you'll obviously be using your left hand to turn the page, there's the danger that the whole of the left side of the jacket will dangle in front of the music. And it just looks naff if every time you use your right hand to hold it close to you in order to prevent this!
The other thing is timing. Pianists are sometimes fond of nodding discretely when they want you to turn. But not always, and sometimes they forget anyway. So you need to agree a rule-of-thumb strategy ahead of time (two or three bars before the end of the page is usual, but of course if the music's whizzing by and the player is, er, physically extended, it could be more.)
And, know where the end of the movement is! Especially in moder repertoire, this is not always obvious, and there's nothing worse than turning a page only to then have to sit there like a lemon and watch the pianist cough, wipe his/her hands/brow etc. etc.
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time_is_now
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« Reply #12 on: 17:59:28, 14-08-2007 »

All good points, martle, though in relation to knowing where the end of the movement is I'd add that you should try not to let the audience know. That is: having made the last page turn of the movement (or the piece), don't sit back and fold your arms. Try to look as if you're still expectantly following the music. Otherwise the audience will 'switch off' when you do.

I didn't notice any sticky pages at that SJSS concert, incre, though I was listening with my eyes closed for much of the first half. The page-turner there was an official SJSS staff member; on previous occasions I've turned several times for Jonathan Powell myself (if he's around he'll hopefully vouch that I'm certainly not the worst page-turner he's ever had!). I've also turned for several other 'new-music' pianists, though never for Ian as it happens. Another important trick is to try to get a clear idea of the tempo, especially if there are lots of very small note values. Otherwise it can be very hard to follow!

Also, if you're turning for Evryali, don't try to follow the notes! Just count. After all, it is in 4/4 all the way through. Wink
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« Reply #13 on: 18:22:14, 14-08-2007 »

Didn't effect my enjoyment of the music too much.
Did you actually expect it to effect your enjoyment? Or to affect it?

I give as goose as I gander.
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increpatio
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« Reply #14 on: 18:28:32, 14-08-2007 »

What about composing a piece for pianist and page-turner, with a specially constructed book of music that would present all sorts of amusing difficulties for the (ideally unprepaired) turner?
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