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Author Topic: Bridge shows Shostakovich how to write slow movements  (Read 1364 times)
Sydney Grew
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« on: 07:57:21, 05-05-2007 »

What a lovely movement is the second one of Bridge's 1913 String Sextet! It demonstrates the vital importance of a rhythm in expressive music.

The renowned slow movement of Schubert's 1828 String Quintet uses very much the same principle to very much the same effect. But Bridge wisely put in a much faster middle section even; he knew that slow music however fine it is requires contrast. Shostakovich the Russian Communist composer had evidently not learned that lesson when he wrote his Eighth Symphony with that wearisome twenty-seven-minute adagio with which it commences!
« Last Edit: 08:03:27, 05-05-2007 by Sydney Grew » Logged
George Garnett
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« Reply #1 on: 08:33:41, 05-05-2007 »

"Bridge shows Shostakovich how to write slow movements"

We hurried excitedly over to this thread expecting a previously unpublished photograph of the two poring over a manuscript. Our mistakenly aroused crest has fallen.

We shall nonetheless seek out the Bridge Second Sextet that you commend, Master Grew, so our disappointment is tempered with a measure of gratitude. Mister Bridge's fine moustache bodes well for the experience.
« Last Edit: 09:18:58, 05-05-2007 by George Garnett » Logged
Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #2 on: 09:15:58, 05-05-2007 »

No one is fooled by this photograph of Bridge.

It terminates mid-chest to avoid showing his poorly-pressed trousers and his sly boots.

How sad that an innovative and accomplished composer should be dragged into the Member's pettyfogging piffle about Shostakovich.
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #3 on: 09:35:59, 05-05-2007 »



Bridge



Mahler

We are surprised by Member Grew's description of the opening movement of Shostakovich's 8th symphony as lacking in contrast since by our recollection it incorporates the full palette of tempo, dynamic and colour available to the mid-twentieth-century orchestra and indeed contains much music which is very fast indeed. We shall nonetheless also seek out the aforementioned sextet.
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Sydney Grew
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« Reply #4 on: 12:51:28, 05-05-2007 »

We shall nonetheless seek out the Bridge Second Sextet that you commend. . .

Actually we may have misled the Member by the way we put it. It is the second movement of what is as far as we know Bridge's only String Sextet. The announcer described it as dating from 1913, but both Grove and Oxford have it as "1906-12". We do not know whether that means that a first version was completed in 1906 and a revision in 1912, or that composition commenced in 1906 and was completed in 1912.

The movement conveys a most marvellous melancholy air of some intense sweetness' having been irretrievably lost. The harmony is complex but rational, very like that of that other sextet, Verklärte Nacht. We note the chromatically descending bass line - always the best route - and remember that Bach was we think the first to use one thus.
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time_is_now
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« Reply #5 on: 12:53:34, 05-05-2007 »

The renowned slow movement of Schubert's 1828 String Quintet uses very much the same principle to very much the same effect. But Bridge wisely put in a much faster middle section even; he knew that slow music however fine it is requires contrast.

So the thread title really ought to be 'Bridge shows Schubert how to write slow movements', no?
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Sydney Grew
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« Reply #6 on: 13:21:15, 05-05-2007 »

The renowned slow movement of Schubert's 1828 String Quintet uses very much the same principle to very much the same effect. But Bridge wisely put in a much faster middle section even; he knew that slow music however fine it is requires contrast.

So the thread title really ought to be 'Bridge shows Schubert how to write slow movements', no?

Well Schubert too puts on a spurt somewhere in the middle doesn't he - it might not be correct to describe that section as "much faster," but he had the right idea. Bridge's intention though was also to combine the two conventional middle movements which one might find in Mozart say, and of course he was far from the first to do or essay such a thing . . .

Mr. Sudden has said that S. in the Eighth Symphony also speeds up. We cannot say we noticed it - we just heard a lot of discordant noise at one or two points - but it will be one of the things to look out for in our second hearing coming up quite soon now.
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George Garnett
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« Reply #7 on: 18:38:20, 05-05-2007 »

Actually we may have misled the Member by the way we put it. It is the second movement of what is as far as we know Bridge's only String Sextet.

You are too gallant, Master Grew. Your denotation was clarity itself. The misperception was wholly the product of this perceiver's clouded post-1908 mind. Had my grandfather equipped himself with dust filtration moustaches to match those of Mr Bridge this might have been avoided. Who can say?
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #8 on: 19:22:49, 05-05-2007 »

Quote
We note the chromatically descending bass line - always the best route - and remember that Bach was we think the first to use one thus.

Of course it depends over what total interval the descent is made,  but Purcell was rather fond of them as Ground Basses, both in his keyboard music, and also providing the substructure of the closing Lament in DIDO & AENEAS.  Cavalli was another fan of the chromatically descending bass-line,  and there are examples in EGISTO, and by coincidence, LA DIDONE also.
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
-  Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
oliver sudden
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« Reply #9 on: 19:45:15, 05-05-2007 »

Monteverdi indeed made some very interesting use of the chromatically descending bass line. Quite often he would harmonise it using harmonies which would be quite normal for harmonising an ascending chromatic line (i.e. secondary dominants) but backwards, which is not at all normal. The result is quite stimulating and we commend it to all upstanding Members.
« Last Edit: 19:47:31, 05-05-2007 by oliver sudden » Logged
roslynmuse
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« Reply #10 on: 20:05:30, 05-05-2007 »

By coincidence I was spinning a compact disc of Young Frank's Lament for Strings only last evening. An attractive and moving piece, dating from 1915. I have a suspicion that it will not bear many repetitions, though, for reasons that have not yet been articulated clearly (despite many postings) in the What Makes a Good Piece of Music thread... ie the opening chords, striking and noteworthy on first appearance, become less so because they are not (or at least hardly - I haven't yet been able to procure even an unclean copy of the score) varied on subsequent repetitions, and, given that the piece is only just over 5 mins long, they thus give the impression of not being part of an organic whole but an idea that was, for FB, irreducible. More subjectively, there is something a little cloying about the effect of the whole piece. Maybe I should give it the recommended seven hearings though before committing myself any further.

[PS I like Bridge  Smiley]

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Sydney Grew
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« Reply #11 on: 00:24:30, 06-05-2007 »

Monteverdi indeed made some very interesting use of the chromatically descending bass line. Quite often he would harmonise it using harmonies which would be quite normal for harmonising an ascending chromatic line (i.e. secondary dominants) but backwards, which is not at all normal. The result is quite stimulating and we commend it to all upstanding Members.

We thank Member Sudden for his mention of Monteverdi. Being somewhat averse to the singing female we are not as far up in Monteverdi as we might be. Could the Member perhaps give us the titles of one or two specific works containing the stimulating effects to which he refers and to which we might then listen without enduring too much that is irrelevant?

We thank the other Member too for quite correctly reminding us all of Purcell etc.
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time_is_now
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« Reply #12 on: 00:33:23, 06-05-2007 »

Being somewhat averse to the singing female we are not as far up in Monteverdi as we might be.
An alarming proposition even if we do say so ourselves.

And at breakfast time too!

 Wink
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #13 on: 01:03:39, 06-05-2007 »

Could the Member perhaps give us the titles of one or two specific works containing the stimulating effects to which he refers and to which we might then listen without enduring too much that is irrelevant?
The effect to which we referred may be found in two pieces from the Selva morale e spirituale, namely the Confitebor tibi Domine a due voce con due violini at the words initium sapientiae timor Domini, and the Salve regina a3 at the words suspiramus gementes et flentes. We remember it also occurring somewhere else in the collection, perhaps in the Laudate pueri (secondo) a5, but we don't have time to check and really must get some kip.

It may be of interest to note that the writer of the programme notes for the Hyperion recording of the first-named featuring this singing female



suggests that the use of this learned effect at the text 'the beginning of wisdom is the fear of the Lord' suggests 'that wisdom may involve deceit'. One can only conclude from this that the writer had some unresolved problems with chromaticism. We had always thought simply that Monteverdi enjoyed employing for this text the latest musical wisdom of his time.
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #14 on: 01:10:21, 06-05-2007 »

perhaps in the Laudate pueri (secondo) a5

Er, no, sorry, not in that. But perhaps in the Dixit dominus secondo a8 or the Laudate Dominum (primo) a5. Ah yes, that's it, the latter. Miseriacordia ejus is the text.
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