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The Radio 3 Boards > The Music Boards > Music Through The Ages > 20th Century > Roman Haubenstock-Ramati
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Author Topic: Roman Haubenstock-Ramati  (Read 2309 times)
TimR-J
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« on: 21:54:47, 08-05-2007 »
The more I find out about Haubenstock-Ramati, the more impressed I am. I only own one piece of his - the 50-minute harp solo Cathédrale - and it's surprisingly good. He has an impressive roster of former pupils, and as an (exiled) Pole, his 1956 Symphonie des timbres may be an unnoticed precursor to sonorism (or perhaps not). Anyway, an intriguing figure. What more should I know, and what should I listen out for?
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Evan Johnson
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« Reply #1 on: 23:08:13, 08-05-2007 »
Quote from: TimR-J on 21:54:47, 08-05-2007
The more I find out about Haubenstock-Ramati, the more impressed I am. I only own one piece of his - the 50-minute harp solo Cathédrale - and it's surprisingly good. He has an impressive roster of former pupils, and as an (exiled) Pole, his 1956 Symphonie des timbres may be an unnoticed precursor to sonorism (or perhaps not). Anyway, an intriguing figure. What more should I know, and what should I listen out for?

I also like Cathédrale.  I am by no means an expert on the RHR discography but this HatArt disc is wonderful, particularly the String Quartet and Mobile for Shakespeare.  Don't know this other one, but I should.
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aaron cassidy
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« Reply #2 on: 03:15:13, 09-05-2007 »
A fascinating and severely under-appreciated composer and teacher.  Thanks for starting the thread, TRJ. 

Have to say, I'm not terribly fond of those HatArt discs (they seem rather .... ordinary.  They sound like 'new music,' and there's really nothing I hate more than 'new music'), but there's not much more available commercially, unfortunately.

Evan & I played in a little group in Buffalo, NY, that did some RHR, and it was always quite intriguing music.  Always a bit baffling at first, but the scores always came to life in a really fascinating and engaging way. 

That he has been one of the most important composition teachers of the late 20th century is in absolutely no doubt.  I'm endlessly amazed at how many first-rate composers list him as a teacher.
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smittims
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« Reply #3 on: 08:37:09, 09-05-2007 »
Quite a number of Haubenstock-Ramati's works were available on disc in the '70s,but he is virtually a forgotten figure these days as far as the CD industry is concerned.

The Alban Berg Quartet recorded one of his quartets,a very fine piece, and it was  on a disc with Webern and Urbanner.The other items were reissued on CD but not his.

He pioneered various new methods of notation and his scores are vey interesting to study. One work of his I'd like to hear (and see) is the full-scale opera 'Amerika' based on Kafka's novel.
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TimR-J
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« Reply #4 on: 10:58:31, 09-05-2007 »
Found a few more bits and pieces listed on Amazon, including this HatArt double CD of piano music - if you can find it, that is...

Is this the quartet recording you mean, smittims? Looks like it did get reissued - but again, finding it might not be so easy...
« Last Edit: 11:00:47, 09-05-2007 by TimR-J » Logged
Bryn
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« Reply #5 on: 11:07:28, 09-05-2007 »
TimR-J, have you exdplored amazon.de ?
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TimR-J
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« Reply #6 on: 12:07:17, 09-05-2007 »
Ooh, nice - thanks Bryn!  Smiley
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time_is_now
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« Reply #7 on: 12:21:51, 09-05-2007 »
Quote
Auf dieser CD:

Chinesische Bilder (1993)
Komponiert von Yun, Levinas, Pagh-Paan, Jolivet, Isang Yun
mit Christiane Hellmann

Der Besucher der Idylle
Komponiert von Yun, Levinas, Pagh-Paan, Jolivet

Der Eremit am Wasser
Komponiert von Yun, Levinas, Pagh-Paan, Jolivet

Der Affenspieler
Komponiert von Yun, Levinas, Pagh-Paan, Jolivet

Die Hirtenflöte
Komponiert von Yun, Levinas, Pagh-Paan, Jolivet

I Pesci (1989)
Komponiert von Yun, Levinas, Pagh-Paan, Jolivet, Pascal Dusapin
mit Christiane Hellmann

Salomo (1967)
Komponiert von Yun, Levinas, Pagh-Paan, Jolivet, Isang Yun
mit Christiane Hellmann

Froissement D'ailes (1975)
Komponiert von Yun, Levinas, Pagh-Paan, Jolivet, Michaël Lévinas
mit Christiane Hellmann

Dreisam-Nore (1975)
Komponiert von Yun, Levinas, Pagh-Paan, Jolivet, Younghi Pagh-Paan
mit Christiane Hellmann

Cinq Incantation (1936) (Auszug)
Komponiert von Yun, Levinas, Pagh-Paan, Jolivet, André Jolivet
mit Christiane Hellmann

Pour Accueillir Les Négociateurs-Et Que L'entrevue Soit Pacifique
Komponiert von Yun, Levinas, Pagh-Paan, Jolivet

Pour Que L'enfant Qui Va Naitre Soit Un Fils
Komponiert von Yun, Levinas, Pagh-Paan, Jolivet

Pour Une Communio Sereine De L'etre Avec Le Monde
Komponiert von Yun, Levinas, Pagh-Paan, Jolivet

Studio per Flauto (1971)
Komponiert von Yun, Levinas, Pagh-Paan, Jolivet, Franco Donatoni
mit Christiane Hellmann

Mai-Bataraki 2
Komponiert von Yun, Levinas, Pagh-Paan, Jolivet, Joji Yuasa
mit Christiane Hellmann

Interpolation für 3 flöten
Komponiert von Yun, Levinas, Pagh-Paan, Jolivet, Roman Haubenstock-Ramati
mit Christiane Hellmann

 Huh Huh Huh

http://r3ok.myforum365.com/index.php?topic=680.0
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TimR-J
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« Reply #8 on: 12:41:34, 09-05-2007 »
I'm assuming that's all a case of bad data entry or something - certainly the back cover of the CD doesn't suggest such inter-composer fraternisation... Undecided
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quartertone
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« Reply #9 on: 15:07:40, 09-05-2007 »
Quote from: Evan Johnson on 23:08:13, 08-05-2007
particularly the String Quartet and Mobile for Shakespeare.

Though the latter piece has such open notation that's it's hard to say whose work you're really listening to on that CD. Speaking of which - did you know that David Tudor made fully-notated transcriptions of ALL the indeterminate pieces he played back in the old Darmstadt days? That's what he played from.
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quartertone
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« Reply #10 on: 15:08:31, 09-05-2007 »
Quote from: aaron cassidy on 03:15:13, 09-05-2007
That he has been one of the most important composition teachers of the late 20th century is in absolutely no doubt.  I'm endlessly amazed at how many first-rate composers list him as a teacher.

Is that right? I only know of Furrer. Who else is there?
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TimR-J
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« Reply #11 on: 15:18:53, 09-05-2007 »
Peter Ablinger for one (it was leafing through liner notes to one of his CDs last night that prompted this thread).

Pawel Szymanski too.
« Last Edit: 15:20:28, 09-05-2007 by TimR-J » Logged
Evan Johnson
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« Reply #12 on: 15:22:00, 09-05-2007 »
Quote from: quartertone on 15:07:40, 09-05-2007
Quote from: Evan Johnson on 23:08:13, 08-05-2007
particularly the String Quartet and Mobile for Shakespeare.

Though the latter piece has such open notation that's it's hard to say whose work you're really listening to on that CD. Speaking of which - did you know that David Tudor made fully-notated transcriptions of ALL the indeterminate pieces he played back in the old Darmstadt days? That's what he played from.

Well, sure.  It's a beautiful performance of something (and although I hear what Aaron's saying I actually find those two pieces - MfS and the Quartet - much more distinctive than he implies), and the score is a beautiful thing in itself.

Yes, the Tudor phenomenon is interesting, and perhaps worth a separate thread; there's also Petr Kotik's protesteth-too-much justification in the liner notes to this about his decision to create a scored-out version of Cage's 103.

As for RHR students, there's also Peter Ablinger (which Tim R-J beat me to), and although I don't know any others off the top of my head he taught for long enough in Vienna that there are bound to be other 1950s-or-so-born composers in that list that we've all heard of.
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aaron cassidy
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« Reply #13 on: 15:28:30, 09-05-2007 »
Quote from: Evan Johnson on 15:22:00, 09-05-2007
Quote from: quartertone on 15:07:40, 09-05-2007
Quote from: Evan Johnson on 23:08:13, 08-05-2007
particularly the String Quartet and Mobile for Shakespeare.

Though the latter piece has such open notation that's it's hard to say whose work you're really listening to on that CD. Speaking of which - did you know that David Tudor made fully-notated transcriptions of ALL the indeterminate pieces he played back in the old Darmstadt days? That's what he played from.

Well, sure. 

Um, I'm not as "sure" as Evan.  Could you explain, qt?
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quartertone
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« Reply #14 on: 15:31:25, 09-05-2007 »
You mean explain why that's the case for the mobile? It's been many years since I saw the score, but I recall it being rather creative, though fairly aspecific (apart from a few pitch groups). I expect you've seen it - do you disagree?
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