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Author Topic: Iannis Xenakis  (Read 2790 times)
richard barrett
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« Reply #75 on: 18:03:10, 11-07-2007 »

I read somewhere that this was influenced by traditional Greek/Byzantine modes and have seen it refered to elsewhere as a folk tune. (??) I'll try and dig out those sources, but in the meantime does anyone have anything further to say on that? Particularly in terms of Xenakis' compositional trajectory before and after 1977. Does this 'new' interest in 'borrowed' material (if that is what it is) signal a break/distancing with prior occupations, or had this occured before??
It's actually an "old" interest rather than a new one. In the first edition of Formalized Music (1972 I think) Xenakis talks about analysing Byzantine modes, and later on used materials deriving not only these modes (or "pitch-sieves" as he tended to call them, since, unlike most modes, his own would often not repeat their intervals from one octave to the next) but also from Balinese music, although I don't believe he ever quotes any actual melodies (except of his own), that would seem to me very alien to his way of thinking. If you go back to his very earliest (pre-Metastaseis) works like Anastenaria, which was composed in 1953 but not as far as I know performed until 2000, the influence of Greek music (alongside Stravinsky and Bartók) is quite overwhelming. After what one might call an "objectivising" period, from Metastaseis through to the early 1960s, he gradually expanded his "vocabulary" to embrace these origins, though from a vastly different perspective.

Hosokawa - I hope this won't seem intemperate but I've never heard a piece of his which I didn't regard as a total waste of time.
« Last Edit: 18:05:27, 11-07-2007 by richard barrett » Logged
Evan Johnson
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« Reply #76 on: 18:08:05, 11-07-2007 »

Are you suggesting it might lie herein?



If only he were wearing a jumpsuit...
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #77 on: 18:09:59, 11-07-2007 »

intemperate

If anything perhaps disappointingly mild although I suppose you might have been allowing for the possibility that there might be ladies present.

All I have to say on the subject is
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keqrops
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« Reply #78 on: 19:20:28, 11-07-2007 »

Cripes!  Shocked

Those Montaigne cheapie sleeves are bowlocks. When they're not scratching the discs or applying glue to them (I had this happen with the Ardittis' Berg disc) they're rolling them gently into the inner darkness.

I prefer them to the old Kairos black-cardboard ones, more than one of which left a stubborn deposit of itself on the surface of the enclosed disc.  (The only one I couldn't remove was on the Hosokawa release, which, if I had to choose one to sacrifice to those particular gods, well, it wouldn't be at the bottom of the list)
I've not had any trouble with the old-style Kairos discs, fortunately, despite the way they bend when they come out. However, I did lose the Lachenmann Kontrakadenz/Klangschatten/Fassade disc to a cat who thought she'd found a brand new chew toy.

Needless to say, that particular recording was pretty much at the bottom of the sacrifice-to-Bast list.
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time_is_now
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« Reply #79 on: 19:46:21, 11-07-2007 »

Yes, I've lost a Lachenmann Kairos disc too (Nun and Notturno). Not sure whether cos of the packaging or I just forgot to put it back in the case, though the Kairos difficulty as you say is usually getting them out of the case, unlike Montaignes which do indeed tend to appear on the floor or down the back of the shelves with alarming regularity.

I blame Irvine for the gluey Berg disc though. Wink
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Evan Johnson
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« Reply #80 on: 20:33:22, 11-07-2007 »


I blame Irvine for the gluey Berg disc though. Wink

I would rather think that where Berg was concerned he might have been more susceptible to an absence of glue?  Cheesy

Haven't heard that disc, though, so can't comment further.  Sorry about the stickiness; I've not had that problem myself with those paper cases.
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dotcommunist
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« Reply #81 on: 11:23:58, 06-08-2007 »

Glue aside, on reading through & listening to Nomos Alpha, I can hardly believe that it's possible to perform it in  one take. the blurb from the wiki site can be rapidly quoted:

"Nomos Alpha (1966) is a piece for solo cello composed by Iannis Xenakis in 1965, commissioned by Radio Bremen for cellist Siegfried Palm, and dedicated to mathematicians Aristoxenus of Tarentum, Évariste Galois, and Felix Klein (DeLio 1985, p.xii).

The structure is in part, Level I, determined by group theory, specifically the 24 element octahedral group structure and is in 24 sections, with each fourth section, Level II, not being determined by group structure and rather a "continuous evolution of register" (ibid, p.23)."


but as for the very ending, the C string is detuned, and one has to play this 2 part polyphony, the pitches of which are really far apart. i haven't tried this section out on the cello myself, but on writing out an  imaginary fingerboard and working out the string changes, it appears to be somewhat utopic...
has anyone seen this piece performed live, and if 'yes' , is this final section really performable??
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #82 on: 11:28:30, 06-08-2007 »

dc, that's precisely the section where I find the recordings misrepresent the piece the most drastically. I have indeed seen it performed live (and turned pages for it); in that context the notes aren't sustained as they are in all recordings I know but the player alternates between the staves (if you look at the score there are little arpeggiation arrows to show which line to play first where the lines coincide).

In performance it's quite breathtaking. In recording I suppose so too, as the cellist sprouts a multitracked alter ego, so to that extent it's fair enough. Still, I wouldn't mind a recording that gives an idea how the thing actually sounds in concert...
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dotcommunist
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« Reply #83 on: 11:37:43, 06-08-2007 »

yes, i remember the arrows, i have a score hidden somewhere, but since the issue took root in my head (approximately an hour ago) i can't seem to find the f%$%*&+$ score. at the time of viewing also remember thinking that the arrows didn't really help... would love to have seen this piece live. the recording i have is of pierre strauch, who plays it exceptionally well, and i don't hear any cuts or edits - can't be real, has Rohan de Saram recorded?

...not such a fan of siegfried palm
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #84 on: 12:21:41, 06-08-2007 »

Rohan has recorded it and the ending is certainly multitracked. In some recordings some of the middle bits have been multitracked as well - there are some double-stops which involve both the detuned string and high harmonics, which are a pretty delicate business.

The arrows do help really - often the things written simultaneously (or which if not for the arrows would have been) can't be played simultaneously so jumping from one to the other is the only way.
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #85 on: 12:27:47, 06-08-2007 »

I always love those multiple simultaneous glissandi in that and other pieces, where one overtakes another, almost like listening to motor racing - those can be done for real, can't they?
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
dotcommunist
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« Reply #86 on: 16:35:03, 08-08-2007 »

yes, in reply to IP, i think the multiple glissandi material in Xenakis can be very exhilirating, only sometimes wonder what is it that is being represented and if the line-induced image formation 'gathered' in my head is more important than the fact of the continuous note-renewal taking place at different rates.

In formalised music, (just to point out, I don't have a copy with me), much is made of the lines of architecture, or the drawing out of the perspectives in the architecture itself. A further example can be found in Evryali: if one looks at the continuous lines the pitches make in Evryali, can be followed until you get to a cluster chord, which then , appropriately enough, work out as being the sonic 'translations' of purely vertical lines.

so, motorbikes or not, it often appears that X composes graphically first to achieve his sonic result. The sound of masses of glissandi certainly have their immediacy & also their distraction; there was an orchestral piece in Donaueschingen (a long time ago) by Julio Estrada which also had masses of glissandi, but frankly i considered his position (with this piece) to be really not far enough away from X & I think , in my arrogance, part of a possible reason for this is that one can go a lot further with the glissando as a sonic problem in itself than X has : the glissando mass has sounded 'classical for  some time now .
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #87 on: 16:36:29, 08-08-2007 »

Also in reply to Ian - some of them can, yes, notably those in Theraps.
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