|
Ian Pace
|
 |
« Reply #45 on: 22:08:06, 07-06-2007 » |
|
Ooh! Is that the end of Evryali tacked onto the beginning of Dikhthas?    Actually, there's a passage in Evryali which is very similar to a passage for the pianist in Dikthas (both range around the whole keyboard at rapid tempo). Part of each hand of either piece is actually identical in places (though the other hand is generally different). And they race by at high speed. If you've played one of them, it can be a little tricky playing the other (because one's hands if let loose can inadvertently start playing the other piece!). Ian (who has played both) |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
|
|
|
|
harmonyharmony
|
|
« Reply #46 on: 23:12:05, 07-06-2007 » |
|
That's rather typical for Xenakis isn't it? The self borrowing reflex?
I'm fairly sure that this recording has messed it up.
I was waiting for that weird repetitive chordal bit at the end of Evryali when I listened to it earlier on this afternoon. Later, when I was listening to the whole CD, it came at the beginning of the 2nd track...
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
'is this all we can do?' anonymous student of the University of Berkeley, California quoted in H. Draper, 'The new student revolt' (New York: Grove Press, 1965) http://www.myspace.com/itensemble |
|
|
|
Ian Pace
|
|
« Reply #47 on: 23:37:34, 07-06-2007 » |
|
That's rather typical for Xenakis isn't it? The self borrowing reflex? Not just for Xenakis!  There's a bit in the piano part from Akanthos which I remember being identical to a bit in Palimpsest. And I'm pretty sure there's some overlap between Kottos and Dikthas. And numerous others. The Italians seem particularly keen on self-borrowing - Berio, Donatoni, Sciarrino and others are/were dab hands at it! I'm fairly sure that this recording has messed it up.
I was waiting for that weird repetitive chordal bit at the end of Evryali when I listened to it earlier on this afternoon. Later, when I was listening to the whole CD, it came at the beginning of the 2nd track... Weird - fantastic passage, though. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
|
|
|
|
harmonyharmony
|
|
« Reply #48 on: 00:07:56, 08-06-2007 » |
|
I always associate the end of that passage with the beginning of Richard's The Unnameable because they seem to crop up in a number of playlists I've made on my iPod.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
'is this all we can do?' anonymous student of the University of Berkeley, California quoted in H. Draper, 'The new student revolt' (New York: Grove Press, 1965) http://www.myspace.com/itensemble |
|
|
|
Sydney Grew
Guest
|
|
« Reply #49 on: 00:12:43, 08-06-2007 » |
|
... I vividly remember Ponthus beginning the program with a Beethoven piano sonata (Appassionata?), then launching immediately after the last cadence into Evryali. He then played the rest of the program with no pauses except to wipe his forehead occasionally. It was really amazing. . . . Really amazing perhaps, really unhinged and annoying certainly, really musical we don't think. Please name a few first-raters, Mr Grew. I don't want to look stupid!
Many thanks in advance.
Best wishes,
Pim
We find Mijnheer Derks's suggestion a good one, and have decided at once to turn our attention to a rejigging of Composers Variously Rated. This time we shall rate their wives, children, and proclivities as well as their music. The message board is in desperate need of something, and C.V.R. could be it!Perhaps in return Mr. Derks would be so kind as to explain to us why until recently English people so stubbornly refused ever to use the word "guilders" but spoke of "florins" instead. It has remained for forty years beyond our comprehension. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
harmonyharmony
|
|
« Reply #50 on: 00:17:01, 08-06-2007 » |
|
Really amazing perhaps, really unhinged and annoying certainly, really musical we don't think.
I have a feeling that this is one of those performances when you'd have to be there. On the screen, the thought of a programme without pauses (especially going from Beethoven to Xenakis without time for the music to resonate - the danger being that it would do neither piece any favours) just looks wrong. But. I've been to enough performances where it shouldn't work. It really shouldn't. But it does. And it is amazing. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
'is this all we can do?' anonymous student of the University of Berkeley, California quoted in H. Draper, 'The new student revolt' (New York: Grove Press, 1965) http://www.myspace.com/itensemble |
|
|
|
Colin Holter
|
|
« Reply #51 on: 03:24:01, 08-06-2007 » |
|
This time we shall rate their wives, children, and proclivities as well as their music. My understanding is that British libel law places the burden of proof on the defendant. If this is the case, Member Grew might be wise to think carefully before rating composers' wives on the internet. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Baziron
Guest
|
|
« Reply #52 on: 10:03:37, 08-06-2007 » |
|
This time we shall rate their wives, children, and proclivities as well as their music. My understanding is that British libel law places the burden of proof on the defendant. If this is the case, Member Grew might be wise to think carefully before rating composers' wives on the internet. I can assure you that The Doctor thinks very long and hard before posting such things. The only problem is that he then goes and actually POSTS them! Baz |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Baziron
Guest
|
|
« Reply #53 on: 10:22:57, 08-06-2007 » |
|
We find Mijnheer Derks's suggestion a good one, and have decided at once to turn our attention to a rejigging of Composers Variously Rated.
I feel sure that The Doctor - Member Grew - must concede that he here means "re-jigging" and not "rejigging". "Rejigging" means "re-equipping for new type of work". Clearly, however, The Doctor means in this instance "sending us all - again - on a merry dance". Baz |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
autoharp
|
|
« Reply #54 on: 10:48:56, 08-06-2007 » |
|
Phew ! Thank goodness for that ! I thought something quite different was intended.
|
|
|
|
« Last Edit: 11:16:13, 08-06-2007 by autoharp »
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
martle
|
|
« Reply #55 on: 10:55:58, 08-06-2007 » |
|
There was I thinking along these lines...  |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Green. Always green.
|
|
|
|
autoharp
|
|
« Reply #56 on: 11:20:21, 08-06-2007 » |
|
Or these.  |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
ahinton
|
|
« Reply #57 on: 13:29:56, 08-06-2007 » |
|
All the jiiggery-pokery (and re[-]jiggery-pokery) within the last few posts demonstrate (without detriment to the contributors concerned) that this thread has lately become less Xenakistic than Grewsome; I understand that "Xenakis" means "little stranger", whereas what the Member Grew has here instigated is a lot stranger than that, although previous evidence might appear to suggest that "we" should be unsurprised...
Best,
Alistair
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
richard barrett
Guest
|
|
« Reply #58 on: 18:23:05, 08-06-2007 » |
|
So can we perhaps get back to Xenakis, and let SG set up his little playpen somewhere else?
Self-quotation seems to have been a lifelong activity of his, not just between say the piano parts of different pieces, but also between pieces in completely different media, as in the orchestral piece Jonchaies, some of which comes very close to passages in the electronic piece La légende d'Eer. Xenakis often claimed that when he began work he tried to start "from nothing", and while one can easily see this in the context of his work as a whole, somehow the flow of "new ideas" seems to me to have taken lace at a different rate from that of the production of actual new compositions - sometimes one work will initiate several new lines of development, while at others a single line of development will stretch over several works. I'm sure there'd be a lot more to say about this.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
harmonyharmony
|
|
« Reply #59 on: 00:14:39, 09-06-2007 » |
|
I seem to remember that in the H&N Xenakis tribute, there was a demonstration of a passage from Keqrops that appeared in a number of different guises.
A friend of mine is doing his PhD here on Xenakis and pointed me in a direction of an article on his self-borrowing. I'll have to dig it out.
There is, of course, the example of ST11 and ST4, the latter being an arrangement for string quartet of the former...
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
'is this all we can do?' anonymous student of the University of Berkeley, California quoted in H. Draper, 'The new student revolt' (New York: Grove Press, 1965) http://www.myspace.com/itensemble |
|
|
|
