teleplasm
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« Reply #45 on: 15:51:18, 25-03-2007 » |
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Quote from message 41 - I just hoped that someone (such as yourself) would throw a hissy fit when one of his own sacred cows got herded into Ian Pace's political corral.
What on earth are you talking about ? You do get out of your pram for no reason don't you ? You tried the hostile act on the Philippe de Vitry thread I remember.
Just WHAT IS YOUR BEEF TELEPLASM ?
I don't have the time to post essays, like Ian Pace or George Garnett, and if I did, they wouldn't be noticed anyway. So, as an outsider, I have to make my posts more beefy. |
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richard barrett
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« Reply #46 on: 15:58:03, 25-03-2007 » |
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I don't have the time to post essays, like Ian Pace or George Garnett, and if I did, they wouldn't be noticed anyway. So, as an outsider, I have to make my posts more beefy. So all you're after is getting noticed, is that right? Well done. |
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #47 on: 16:00:11, 25-03-2007 » |
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But in fact, I'm very sympathetic to the idea of lament. After all, so much of early 20th Century English music was a lament for "the world we have lost", music that is regarded by some not so much as ambulance-chasing as backward-looking. Did that world ever really exist? If you mean "Was there ever a rural England?", the answer is obviously yes. But I surmise that what you really mean is that there was a rural England, but that it was a poverty-stricken, oppressive feudal society. Yes, or more simply it wasn't the Arcadian idyll that seems implied by quite a bit of that music. |
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
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autoharp
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« Reply #48 on: 16:04:17, 25-03-2007 » |
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Quote from message 41 - I just hoped that someone (such as yourself) would throw a hissy fit when one of his own sacred cows got herded into Ian Pace's political corral.
What on earth are you talking about ? You do get out of your pram for no reason don't you ? You tried the hostile act on the Philippe de Vitry thread I remember.
Just WHAT IS YOUR BEEF TELEPLASM ?
I don't have the time to post essays, like Ian Pace or George Garnett, and if I did, they wouldn't be noticed anyway. So, as an outsider, I have to make my posts more beefy. Ah, so you're a troll. So, teleplasm, what do your friends call you ? Benito ? |
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teleplasm
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Posts: 49
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« Reply #49 on: 16:05:53, 25-03-2007 » |
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I don't have the time to post essays, like Ian Pace or George Garnett, and if I did, they wouldn't be noticed anyway. So, as an outsider, I have to make my posts more beefy. So all you're after is getting noticed, is that right? Well done. The "all" is something that you've inserted. It isn't implied by anything I said. I take it that when you make a post, you have something to say AND you wan't it to be noticed. In the absence of the second, you might have used your time more profitably. |
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teleplasm
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« Reply #50 on: 16:15:48, 25-03-2007 » |
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Quote from message 41 - I just hoped that someone (such as yourself) would throw a hissy fit when one of his own sacred cows got herded into Ian Pace's political corral.
What on earth are you talking about ? You do get out of your pram for no reason don't you ? You tried the hostile act on the Philippe de Vitry thread I remember.
Just WHAT IS YOUR BEEF TELEPLASM ?
I don't have the time to post essays, like Ian Pace or George Garnett, and if I did, they wouldn't be noticed anyway. So, as an outsider, I have to make my posts more beefy. Ah, so you're a troll. So, teleplasm, what do your friends call you ? Benito ? I've never been called a troll before, perhaps because I used rather to engage in long and abstruse debates. Then I discovered to my horror how much time they were taking up, and changed my style somewhat. But I still plead not guilty to being a troll. Benito? That relatively innocuous Italian nationalist? Or do you mean Benito Juarez? |
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richard barrett
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« Reply #51 on: 16:16:38, 25-03-2007 » |
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I take it that when you make a post, you have something to say AND you wan't it to be noticed. In the absence of the second, you might have used your time more profitably.
Just checking. Though I don't see why you assume nobody would take any notice if you actually said what you wanted to say, at whatever length, rather than just winding people up. Otherwise the obvious conclusion is, well, Autoharp has stated it already. |
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harmonyharmony
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« Reply #52 on: 16:27:43, 25-03-2007 » |
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Well, as nice as this all is...
Doesn't this whole question bring up a further question: what is a title for and what purpose does it serve?
I seem to remember that this got some debate around the courts of tOP when Ades's Tevot was first mentioned but I thought that it might be a good plan to resurrect it.
Ian characterised the Penderecki Threnody as one of these Ambulance-chasing works, but I'm not convinced by that (actually I've not really liked the general tone of the thread which is why I've steered clear until now). Is there a difference between Penderecki's Hiroshima piece and that by Nono? Or is it that Nono set out to write a piece about Hiroshima, whereas Penderecki wrote the piece and only later on thought that it was an apt title?
Anyway, when talking about the Ferneyhough 'In Nomine', I brought up the idea of Invisible/Unseeable Colours as an explanation for titles.
Any thoughts?
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'is this all we can do?' anonymous student of the University of Berkeley, California quoted in H. Draper, 'The new student revolt' (New York: Grove Press, 1965) http://www.myspace.com/itensemble |
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teleplasm
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Posts: 49
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« Reply #53 on: 16:31:25, 25-03-2007 » |
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But in fact, I'm very sympathetic to the idea of lament. After all, so much of early 20th Century English music was a lament for "the world we have lost", music that is regarded by some not so much as ambulance-chasing as backward-looking. Did that world ever really exist? If you mean "Was there ever a rural England?", the answer is obviously yes. But I surmise that what you really mean is that there was a rural England, but that it was a poverty-stricken, oppressive feudal society. Yes, or more simply it wasn't the Arcadian idyll that seems implied by quite a bit of that music. No, but it was still worth lamenting. I daresay even you might consider (for example) that having their own music was preferable to the commercially-fabricated music that has taken its place. |
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« Last Edit: 19:14:28, 25-03-2007 by teleplasm »
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richard barrett
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« Reply #54 on: 16:36:26, 25-03-2007 » |
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I brought up the idea of Invisible/Unseeable Colours as an explanation for titles.
What does it explain though? |
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harmonyharmony
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« Reply #55 on: 16:43:36, 25-03-2007 » |
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Sorry. 'Explain' was entirely the wrong word.
Titles 'colour' our perception of the art-work.
Calling a piece 'Music for orchestra' inflects the listening experience in a different way to 'Music for the Princess of Hearts' for example.
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'is this all we can do?' anonymous student of the University of Berkeley, California quoted in H. Draper, 'The new student revolt' (New York: Grove Press, 1965) http://www.myspace.com/itensemble |
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richard barrett
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« Reply #56 on: 17:04:30, 25-03-2007 » |
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Quite so. Since titles (even "Untitled") have to be there, they might as well be chosen carefully to relate to the music in a meaningful way.
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roslynmuse
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« Reply #57 on: 17:35:27, 25-03-2007 » |
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What about a Schumannesque * * * ?
If a composer did that today it would be considered (IMO) coy and precious; and therefore bias the listener before a note is heard. And yet my conditioning doesn't make me perceive Schumann in the same way.
I actually don't much like seeing titles including any other symbols (@, /, (), etc) - they do tend to get my back up, probably unfairly at times, before I've heard the piece...
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Evan Johnson
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« Reply #58 on: 18:02:28, 25-03-2007 » |
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What about a Schumannesque * * * ?
If a composer did that today it would be considered (IMO) coy and precious; and therefore bias the listener before a note is heard. And yet my conditioning doesn't make me perceive Schumann in the same way.
Like this? |
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richard barrett
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« Reply #59 on: 18:16:01, 25-03-2007 » |
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That's an unpronounceable title if ever I saw one. At least Dieter Schnebel's :! has an alternative title (madrasha II, though I suppose in a way it doesn't help that much) just in case something like a broadcast announcement might need to be made.
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