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Author Topic: Edgard Varèse  (Read 3868 times)
oliver sudden
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« Reply #75 on: 15:46:28, 30-07-2007 »

(For the record, Aaron C is coming around on Xenakis, a bit, after hearing an absolutely astonishing performance of Tetras by the JACK Quartet and listening to several of the new mode CDs.)


Well, well. I don't know JACK!

 Wink
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aaron cassidy
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« Reply #76 on: 17:29:49, 30-07-2007 »

(For the record, Aaron C is coming around on Xenakis, a bit, after hearing an absolutely astonishing performance of Tetras by the JACK Quartet and listening to several of the new mode CDs.)


Well, well. I don't know JACK!

 Wink

(They're fantastic, despite the goofy name.  http://www.jackquartet.com/  (The first piece they played as a group was GRIDO, and they joked that if the piece had been written for them, it would've been called "JACK" ... and somehow the name stuck.))

((Apologies for the quick diversion from the Varese discussion ...))
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richard barrett
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« Reply #77 on: 17:31:50, 30-07-2007 »

Hello again. Before we get on to this ridiculous business of some people not liking Xenakis and/or Mahler, which will obviously have to stop, I thought the following might be of interest.

The stereo mix of Poème which appears with the Chailly complete recording was made by Konrad Boehmer and Kees Tazelaar from what was at the time thought to be the "original" 4-track tape, from the archive of the Institute for Sonology in The Hague. Unfortunately, when this was delivered to Decca, their engineers decided to play it back in a hall (the small hall of the Concertgebouw) and rerecord it with microphones (and master it at a peak level of -14dB), so it's a fairly adulterated version of the piece. The one on this double CD from BVHAAST



was made from the source tapes as previously described. The location of the source tapes for Déserts, if they still exist, seems to be unknown.

Chou Wen-chung sold the Varèse Nachlass to the Sacher Stiftung in Basel, where a fairly large exhibition of it was held in 2006. The catalogue is still available

http://www.paul-sacher-stiftung.ch/pss/publikationen/ausstellungskataloge.htm

and I think I might buy myself one. Thanks to Kees T for coming up with all this info so quickly.

I don't know JACK either, but that happens so often...
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Bryn
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« Reply #78 on: 19:28:31, 30-07-2007 »

A subtle bit of self-promotion there, Richard. Wink
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richard barrett
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« Reply #79 on: 19:36:09, 30-07-2007 »

Oh. Yes. Sorry, I'd forgotten about that. But there's a lot of good stuff on those CDs, and curiosities like the Ligeti Pièce electronique no.3. And on the same label there's all this too: http://www.xs4all.nl/~wbk/BV_cat_list.html#acousmatrix
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Bryn
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« Reply #80 on: 20:21:03, 30-07-2007 »

Don' worry, Richard, it was track 6 on the first CD I got it for. The Xenakis, Varèse, Ligeti et al, were purely incidental. Wink
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Bryn
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« Reply #81 on: 21:06:02, 30-07-2007 »


4) Ecuatorial - one of my favourites - I'm going to hear it live tomorrow at the Prom (many thanks to Chafing Dish for posting the article). I have fond memories of the mid-60s Prom performance. Was it as good as I remember ? Bryn, you were there, weren't you  ?


Indeed I was, autoharp. My very first Prom, I think. Beethoven's 5th in the first half, Ecuatorial and Déserts in the second. I think I still have the Programme, somewhere.

I have done a deal with a colleague, whereby he will drive my bus over to Windsor and back, tomorrow, so that I can take my car over there for a quick get-away to the RAH after my last run. I will be heading from a charge-free parking meter, for the Arena, soon after 18:30, I hope. Who else here is intending to attend?
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autoharp
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« Reply #82 on: 07:09:34, 31-07-2007 »

1) I do know Jack, or at least I've rediscovered him: Adrian Jack, that is, who wrote a couple of articles on Varese for Music and Musicians in the mid-1970s. Pretty interesting stuff they are too, especially concerning formal elements in Integrales and Octandre.

2) By a strange coincidence, Tim Souster writing in The Listener in 1968 (Varese Today) comes up with "His concept of music . . . is positively anti-European in its aggressively static repetition of ostinati". Just in case anybody's seduced by that notion, Tim happened to mention in the previous paragraph "He . . . was a close friend of Satie" . . .

3) Anecdotal sirens - or not ? Is there not a connection with the "sliding tones" that certain composers were (independently) interested in round this time ? Percy Grainger, John Cage, Johanna Beyer etc.

4) A couple of other instances of pre-WW2 works "influenced" (horrible word) by Varese (apart from Jolivet's Mana[?]) are (definitely) Revueltas' Sensemaya and (possibly) Cage's Imaginary Landscape no. 1 (not necessarily because of the "sliding tones").

5) Spent a lot of time yesterday listening to most of Varese's works. One which has survived particularly well is Deserts, and I'm still impressed by the electronic interpolations as well which I've always felt blend well with the orchestral music. I'm probably in a minority here (?).

6) One curious thing which turned up was a programme for a Varese event put on by the London Music Digest at the Roundhouse in 1974, (a prime candidate for a Concerts I Don't Remember Attending thread). I had a good snigger at the final sentence of the programme which read "It had been hoped to include the Etude for 'Espace' (the only existing fragment which Varese himself performed in public) in tonight's programme, but this performance is not being undertaken because it was thought that a hearing of this piece in its present form would not have been approved by Varese".
« Last Edit: 07:49:57, 01-08-2007 by autoharp » Logged
time_is_now
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« Reply #83 on: 09:59:11, 31-07-2007 »

I have done a deal with a colleague, whereby he will drive my bus over to Windsor and back, tomorrow, so that I can take my car over there for a quick get-away to the RAH after my last run. I will be heading from a charge-free parking meter, for the Arena, soon after 18:30, I hope. Who else here is intending to attend?
I'll be there in the Arena, for both Proms tonight, Bryn.
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
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« Reply #84 on: 11:44:54, 31-07-2007 »


In case some of you haven't heard this before, there's an interesting streamed interview, made in 1973  with Slonimsky who , as well as describing Varese as a large french peasant, offers a few interesting anecdotes about the time, and about Ionisation (composed 1931):

http://www.archive.org/details/OnVareseIonization

The aspect of Varese's music not sounding particularly european , given his specific musical and political environment is perhaps more relevant than it may seem.
The Contemporary Music Review devotes a whole issue to V, this being Vol.23, No.2, June 2004. In it you'll find  "Edgard Varese and His Relationships With Latin American Musicians and Intellectuals of His Time" where Graciella Paraskevaidis seeks to readdress the influence  of Latin American music on V as  not merely being of  superficial interest, but as playing a fundamental role leading up  the composition and performance of Ionisation (perhaps other pieces as well...). Using evidence & examples it is shown that Ion. was not the first concert piece for percussion only, but that there were pieces, the composers of which  V had come into  close contact with, that had done this already. A few years before Ion., the cuban composer Amadeo Roldan wrote a cycle of pieces between 1929-1930 called Ritmicas. The first 4 are scored for instrumental sextet (fl., ob., clr., bsn, hrn., pno.). Ritmicas V, is based on the son rhythm - Ritmica VI   on the rumba rhythm, was for a cuban percussion ensemble.
Both R V & VI call for 11 performers on pair of claves, cencerros, donkeys jawbone (quijada) , guiro, maracas, bongos, 2 Cuban Timpani (not seen these before) , 3 orchestral timpani, bassdrum &  marimbula. 
Other Composers V came into close contact with during his many visits to S.America, cited by GC were Eduardo Fabini, Jose Andre, HVLobos, Juan Carlos Paz, writer Alejo Carpentier and Argentinian sculptor/writer Gyula Kosice.

Graciella gave me a paper version of her article in english last summer. Although a  general websearch didn't  allow me to view this online, versions can be found either in German or Spanish:

http://www.latinoamerica-musica.net/compositores/varese/paras-d.html#oben

...you have to do a small bit of navigation with this website will bring you to the original spanish version:

http://www.latinoamerica-musica.net/frames/en.html


Unfortunately  for ARoldan, the Ritmica  cycle had to wait until after the cuban revolution , in 1960 before it  be played in its entirety, whereas Ion. was performed by NSlonimsky firstly in NY, march, 1933, then in Havana  a month later.  GP's further , more salient point is that for most musicologists Ion. remains the first ever piece to be "...entirely composed for percussion ensemble , as it is so often said, stated, quoted and verified in scholarly essays , books, articles and analyses. Actually it was only lucky to have been premiered first."

furthermore...

"Although under such a north centric vision of the world, it is not possible even to imagine that something could have happened or could have been produced, created, invented , by the 'other'  outside the boundaries of cultural centralism, and, although it seems perhaps meaningless for cultural purposes to find out who arrived at a goal first, it is simply a question of accepting a historical fact and of explaining to the cultural centralism of the northern hemisphere -always very eager to demonstrate it-  that this fact took place in the 'periphery'."

I had to quote her in full on this point, since I couldn't have summed it up better myself.

In this respect, and this is certainly an 'aside' because , admittedly, it does venture further away from our initial discourse on Varese, I found an interesting article, that discusses these problem-ridden issues of cultural identity and isolation by Coriun Aharonian, who is a Uruguayan composer and has written a great deal on popular musics and forms during  S.American dictatorships (for example in Uruguay), again mostly in Spanish (to my knowledge). It can also be found on the website:

 http://www.latinoamerica-musica.net/frames/en.html
 
of the 4 languages on offer, you have to click on 'english' then click 'points of view' (all on left-hand side) to eventually find "Otherness as Self-Defense or as Submission? Third World Composer's Crossroad"
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Sydney Grew
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« Reply #85 on: 15:08:18, 31-07-2007 »


It was many decades ago when we were a youth at his most impressionable our music master who initiated us to modern melody through thrusting one evening into our hands a recording of Octandre. It came to us as a revelation of the thrilling power of Art. Sudden shocks are always preferable to gradual disclosures would not Members agree?

Let us therefore list a few salient and significant facts about the doings of this so profound and influential composer!

1) Varèse studied of course under Roussel and D'Indy, and the start they gave him evidently served him well for the rest of his creative life. We clearly hear for instance moments in Roussel's First Symphony echoed fifty-two years later in the Electronic Poem.

2) He went off to Berlin in 1907 having read the book "Outline of a new Musical Æsthetic" (published in that year) by the avant-gardist Busoni. Doubtless Varèse was neither the first nor the last great man to have his course of life changed by a book. Incidentally it may be downloaded from the Internet Archive. Varèse was particularly impressed by these two dicta of Busoni:
   a) "Music is born free, and its destiny is to conquer freedom"
   b) "The rôle of the creative artist is to construct laws, not to follow those which have already been constructed."

3) Let it not be forgotten that this Busoni up with whom he proceeded to strike a close acquaintance was the very first musician to espouse:
  a) microtonality (36 to the octvave) and
  b) electronic music.

4) Among Varèse's greatest works we hear were the 1905 Symphonic Poems The Apotheosis of the Ocean and Song of the Youths (so much more significant than Sockhausen's 1956 effort bearing the identical appellation), his Three Pieces for Orchestra (also 1905, an idea imitated by Berg nine years later), Bourgogne (1908 - another symphonic poem, full of sevenths and ninths, which a Berlin critic described as "an infernal noise"), Mehr Licht (1911 - Goethe's famous last words as most Members will be aware, but Varèse's plan was to filter his sonic material so as to render it more and more luminous), and the 1913 opera Oedipus and the Sphinx to a text of Hofmannsthal.

5) Around 1912 on a visit to Paris he introduced Schoenberg's system of pantonality to that intentionally vague Frenchman Claude Debussy. In October 1912 he took part in a preview performance of what we consider Schoenberg's ugliest work, Pierrot Lunaire.

6) In 1913 while Varèse was again visiting Paris he left most of his manuscripts in storage in Berlin. A fire broke out and almost all his early work was destroyed. We consider this to be the second greatest tragedy in the history of twentieth-century composition (the greatest being of course the premature expiry of Scryabine due to something he picked up in London).

7) In 1939 Varèse set out his view of the new possibilities machines might offer the composer:
   a) liberation from the tempered system
   b) a pitch-range extended in both directions
   c) new harmonic splendours obtainable from the use of sub-harmonic combinations until then impossible (we especially approve of this one)
   d) increased differentiation of timbre
   e) an expanded dynamic spectrum
   f) the feasibility of sound projection in space
   g) unrelated cross-rhythms.

In 1959 we ourselves set out our view of the new possibilities machines might offer the composer:
   a) performers and conductors may be dispensed with (they are often no more than a source of misunderstanding and other problems)
   b) superhuman feats of execution become possible
   c) new timbres may be concocted as required
   d) tremendous accuracy of pitch is achievable.

8) Varèse, as a good acoustician, once told Xenakis (of all people!) that Schoenberg's system was fundamentally wrong, because it made no distinction between sharps and flats.

9) In 1962 Varèse is said to have destroyed Bourgogne "in a moment of despair." What a significant act that was we see when we consider its year of composition: 1908 - when humanity reached its most advanced cultural point and began a long steep decline.

10) Varèse's principal piece of advice to the talented and aspiring youths who surrounded him was always "Only ever associate with the élite." It was of course his own way in life.

Finally we might give a brief indication of why Varèse was a first-rate composer in contradistinction to so many later modernists who are seventh-raters or even charlatans. The reason lies in his use of pitched sound-blocks; not random but chosen - or rather, carefully constructed - in such a way that they somehow take on an universal significance. It is therein - in that universality of his material - that his real genius lies. It means that Varèse became one of the most mystical of composers because of his love of new worlds and the mythologies of science and the machine.

And besides, as is so regrettably not the case in so much of the music of his lesser modern imitators, there is in his an abundance of significant and unflagging simultaneities.
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richard barrett
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« Reply #86 on: 16:45:48, 31-07-2007 »

We must express some astonishment that Member Grew is even able to contemplate listening to the unrelieved dissonance of which Monsieur de Varèse's work largely consists, though we do find him reserving his most fulsome praise (in point 3) for a number of works which he cannot possibly have heard on account of the scores not surviving, as well as explaining said composer's first-rateness in terms of his being some kind of mystic, which all the evidence we ourselves have seen suggests he was not.

However that may be, we do feel moved at this stage to thank posters to this thread for many informative and thought-provoking contributions, which have far exceeded our expectations and sent us back to the music with renewed enthusiasm and curiosity.
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Bryn
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« Reply #87 on: 01:38:54, 01-08-2007 »

Mr. Barrett, I question your use of the word "fulsome". Surely you misuse it in this context?
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Bryn
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« Reply #88 on: 02:34:19, 01-08-2007 »

By the way, this is worth investigating, especially at the lowest Amazon Marketplace price, since not only does the recording of Déserts use the original Paris tape interpolations, but the version of Ecuatorial is the one with bass solo, rather than chorus. The playing is not up to the standard of the RCO or the ASKO Ensemble, but it's reasonable.

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ahinton
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« Reply #89 on: 07:17:37, 01-08-2007 »

10) Varèse's principal piece of advice to the talented and aspiring youths who surrounded him was always "Only ever associate with the élite." It was of course his own way in life.
I can see the risk of your getting into hot water with at least one member here for making such a statement...

Best,

Alistair
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