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Evan Johnson
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« on: 14:36:39, 01-08-2007 » |
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(have we already had one of these?)
I'm starting to dip into the big 22CD box that plopped on my doorstep yesterday, and I'm mightily impressed; many of the pieces, even the big ones, have escaped my concentrated attention, and I am greatly enjoying rectifying that; the Symphony in Three Movements has been the latest to strongly reward respectful attention.
For me, Stravinsky may or may not be the GREATEST COMPOSER OF THE TWENTIETH CENTURY, but I cannot think of another who has the astonishingly unfailing instinct to always choose the correct note, to make it sound like the correct note instantly and intuitively regardless of context, and to craft an idiom where that makes all the difference. There are few composers of whom I can say that I simply cannot imagine their technique being any better. Maybe late Webern, but that doesn't account for the breadth of Stravinsky's achievements...
I just don't know how he does it.
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Ron Dough
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« Reply #1 on: 14:53:46, 01-08-2007 » |
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You're very much preaching to the converted in this particular quarter, Evan: I'm not sure that I could nominate a single greatest C20th composer at all, but he'd always be in my shortlist. It's a very strong individual voice; almost what ever you hear of his is immediately identifiable as Stravinsky, even if you've never heard the piece before. A man who can unfailingly choose the right 'wrong' notes, who can make even the most complex rhythmical decisions sonically logical, who time and time again discovers new sonorities and textures and most of all leaves such huge footprints of influence upon so very many others certainly deserves to be counted with the greatest.
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Bryn
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« Reply #2 on: 14:58:09, 01-08-2007 » |
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That recorded performance of the Symphony in Three Movements is by far my favourite of the work. Now, anyone know where I can hold of a recording of "a propos le Sacre"?
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Ron Dough
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« Reply #3 on: 14:59:38, 01-08-2007 » |
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Bryn, not from me until I can get the turntable I want at a price that's right.....
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Bryn
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« Reply #4 on: 15:11:35, 01-08-2007 » |
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Perhaps we should start a campaign to get Sony/BMG to put together a CD of all the items in the 22 CD box which have editing cock-ups, plus "a propos le Sacre"? They put a fair bit of effort into that recently issued compilation of "A Soldier's Tale", so perhaps they just need the right sort of fillip.
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Evan Johnson
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« Reply #5 on: 15:12:47, 01-08-2007 » |
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Perhaps we should start a campaign to get Sony/BMG to put together a CD of all the items in the 22 CD box which have editing cock-ups, plus "a propos le Sacre"? They put a fair bit of effort into that recently issued compilation of "A Soldier's Tale", so perhaps they just need the right sort of fillip.
What are the other editing screwups, aside from the by now obsessively well-documented one in Movements? |
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Bryn
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« Reply #6 on: 15:19:12, 01-08-2007 » |
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I haven't checked it out, but it is reported that the opening note is missing from one of the 8 miniatures, IIRC. There have been allusions to other errors, though a I think the one about the Petrushka suite may be rather wide of the mark. I think one of the customer reviews on the US Amazon site may have more details. Then there's the question of who conducted what.  |
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« Last Edit: 15:31:15, 01-08-2007 by Bryn »
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Sydney Grew
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« Reply #7 on: 15:37:40, 01-08-2007 » |
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I cannot think of another who has the astonishingly unfailing instinct to always choose the correct note, to make it sound like the correct note instantly and intuitively regardless of context, and to craft an idiom where that makes all the difference. Reginald Smith Brindle, on page 85 of his little book " Serial Composition," disagrees. He discusses a passage from the Canticum Sacrum, and writes "Apart from the octave between tenor and discant at the beginning of the fifth bar, and the false relations of the octave in bars four and five, the harmonic flow is badly regulated. The first four bars contain almost diatonic note-associations, except for the two semitone clashes marked. But the fifth bar plunges into harsh semitone relationships which create harmony of an altogether different character. We are given the impression that it is not the composer who has controlled the harmony, but that it is just a chance-born child of contrapuntal circumstances." |
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Evan Johnson
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« Reply #8 on: 15:45:31, 01-08-2007 » |
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I cannot think of another who has the astonishingly unfailing instinct to always choose the correct note, to make it sound like the correct note instantly and intuitively regardless of context, and to craft an idiom where that makes all the difference. Reginald Smith Brindle, on page 85 of his little book " Serial Composition," disagrees. He discusses a passage from the Canticum Sacrum, and writes "Apart from the octave between tenor and discant at the beginning of the fifth bar, and the false relations of the octave in bars four and five, the harmonic flow is badly regulated. The first four bars contain almost diatonic note-associations, except for the two semitone clashes marked. But the fifth bar plunges into harsh semitone relationships which create harmony of an altogether different character. We are given the impression that it is not the composer who has controlled the harmony, but that it is just a chance-born child of contrapuntal circumstances." Perhaps, but as I have detailed before on another thread, Reginald Smith Brindle is an idiot, at least in what texts of his I have read ( Serial Composition not being among those). I would, however, like to know what the passage in question is, particularly as Canticum Sacrum is among my favorite of IS's works. |
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Tony Watson
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« Reply #9 on: 16:07:22, 01-08-2007 » |
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I cannot think of another who has the astonishingly unfailing instinct to always choose the correct note, to make it sound like the correct note instantly and intuitively regardless of context, and to craft an idiom where that makes all the difference.
I agree. This might not be the best example, but I immediately thought of the treatment of the Schubert tune in the Circus Polka when I read that. It's a distortion, but he makes it sound right in that context. Petrushka is a favourite. So many different moods so convincingly characterized in a not particularly long piece. |
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Sydney Grew
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« Reply #10 on: 16:08:24, 01-08-2007 » |
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I would, however, like to know what the passage in question is, particularly as the Canticum Sacrum is among my favorite of Ighor's works. Our pleasure: |
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martle
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« Reply #11 on: 16:16:40, 01-08-2007 » |
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I cannot think of another who has the astonishingly unfailing instinct to always choose the correct note, to make it sound like the correct note instantly and intuitively regardless of context, and to craft an idiom where that makes all the difference.
Can't argue with that. Stravinsky? He da man. And it's the breadth of output that makes him great - the sheer scope of it, the variety of formal approaches, the sonic 'freshness', as Ron says, the unflagging invention over a lifetime. That Smith Brindle excerpt is twaddle of the first order, totally missing the point of Stravinsky's serial methods which often were designed to tease out octave/unison co-incidences. Can anyone think of a better C20th opera buffa than The Rake's Progress? |
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Green. Always green.
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time_is_now
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« Reply #12 on: 17:18:31, 01-08-2007 » |
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The Rake's Progress?
Whose progress, martle? Thought you mentioned someone else there for a minute. I'll try to bring a more serious contribution to this thread when I've found a way past Evan's cunning formulation of Stravinsky's particular talents! But I'm with Ollie, I'm afraid - there's nothing in Stravinsky to match St François. |
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
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richard barrett
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« Reply #13 on: 01:00:13, 02-08-2007 » |
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Smith Brindle's treatment of twelve-tone harmony is quite confused and at the same time crassly simplistic, I seem to remember, and the suggestion that Stravinsky was handling it sloppily is laughable.
Having said that, I'm not really that keen on most Stravinsky. I think the Rite is something of immense beauty and power but that he then shrank back from it (eventually into his "neoclassical" phase, much of which I find far too facile) rather than taking it as a starting point, and while there are other pieces of his which I return to relatively often and like well enough, I feel that it's music which keeps the listener at arm's length - I find much of it very impressive but not essential.
I also get highly annoyed at this "greatest composer of the twentieth century" label being attached to him. Why does the twentieth century need a greatest composer? The 19th century doesn't have one.
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Biroc
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« Reply #14 on: 01:07:35, 02-08-2007 » |
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The 19th century doesn't have one.
Really? I thought it wiz Spohr...? |
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"Believe nothing they say, they're not Biroc's kind."
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