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Author Topic: 20th century string quartets (not Bartok or Shostakovich)  (Read 2674 times)
richard barrett
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« Reply #75 on: 02:03:44, 11-11-2007 »

the music of Mr Alexander Goehr sounds really quite a lot like Janacek at times.

Respecting your opinions and insights as we do, we shall have to ask you for an example of that similarity, which we must say we have never chanced upon. What we have heard of Mr Goehr has evoked in us comparisons with the drying of paint, so any means by which we might gain a greater appreciation of it would be most welcome.
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Sydney Grew
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« Reply #76 on: 08:04:41, 11-11-2007 »

There is an alarming number of 20th century composers, Bartok and Shostakovich apart, who composed 6 string quartets or more. Most of these sets we don't hear about. It could be that we don't need to, but there must be a decent set somewhere. Examples of such composers include

Martinu
Villa-Lobos
Van Dieren
Glazunov
Reger
Myaskovsky
Wellesz
Milhaud
Haba
Dessau
Norgaard
Sculthorpe
Isang Yun
Holmboe
Simpson
Tansman
Krenek
Rosenberg

Wouldn't mind hearing a few by Tansman for a start.

Any comments, anybody ?
We too would love to hear any of Tansman's, and of Yun's.

But since Janacek's (two, third rate, takeable or leavable) and Goehr's the Manchester man and first-rate composer who Professed at Cambridge and at one time taught Roger Smalley (four is it not, gripping, serial and not at all like Janacek! - much more like Dallawhatever) have already somehow had a look in, Members may forgive us for bringing up something fundamental, namely the Four Quartets of Arnold Schoenberg.

The first movement of his Second String Quartet (1908) is one of the most thrilling pieces of music it has ever been our good fortune to encounter - even more thrilling than the Sextet which is saying something. It remains a high point of Western musical culture. The remaining three movements fall rather flatter, as how could they not after that, and the singing was in the end an unfortunate mistake. But the composer evidently invested a great deal of time and effort into the work, which was not at all the case with Erwartung which he become much idler dashed off just twelve short months later. (What trypanosomiasis got into him in the mean-time?)

His Third (1927) and Fourth (1936) String Quartets though are among the best of his later works; they are are they not the acceptable face of dodecaphonism.
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Il Grande Inquisitor
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« Reply #77 on: 09:37:28, 11-11-2007 »

The first movement of his Second String Quartet (1908) is one of the most thrilling pieces of music it has ever been our good fortune to encounter - even more thrilling than the Sextet which is saying something. It remains a high point of Western musical culture. The remaining three movements fall rather flatter, as how could they not after that, and the singing was in the end an unfortunate mistake.

An interesting observation from Member Grew. I'm sure that he and other members here will have heard the excellent Stephen Johnson give his talk about Schoenberg's 2nd String Quartet in F# minor on Discovering Music, but in case anyone missed it, here's the link:  http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/discoveringmusic/pip/vr2bl/. Johnson explains the journey through the four movements as an exploratory voyage of discovery as it gradually shifts from the tonality of the first movement which Mr Grew admires so much. I am only just exploring Schoenberg's music myself, having known only Verklärte Nacht for years, and find the string quartets fascinating.

« Last Edit: 09:39:08, 11-11-2007 by Il Grande Inquisitor » Logged

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George Garnett
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« Reply #78 on: 11:43:55, 11-11-2007 »

While I'm in the mood for seconding things I'll give a 'hear hear' to IGI's recommendation of Stephen Johnson's programme on the Schoenberg Second Quartet. In particular I found myself cheering to the rafters SJ's remarks towards the end of his talk where he was having a little dig at those who argue for the 'historical inevitability' of complete atonality as the necessary next step post-Tristan etc. He was arguing instead, very persuasively I thought, that in the Second Quartet Schoenberg was sketching out, or hinting at, a whole range of possibilities of what could 'come next', and closing none of them off. All was possible. The thoroughgoing atonality of many of Schoenberg's subsequent works was an individual artistic choice from among many other possibilities, not something that 'historical progress' demanded or made inevitable.

[When I say 'argued very persuasively', I suppose I probably really mean that it was pleasing to have my own prejudices on that subject massaged and coddled by someone as knowledgeable and expert as Stephen Johnson. But even so.] 
« Last Edit: 11:45:47, 11-11-2007 by George Garnett » Logged
time_is_now
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« Reply #79 on: 11:57:11, 11-11-2007 »

those who argue for the 'historical inevitability' of complete atonality as the necessary next step post-Tristan etc.
Among whom most prominent were the composer Herr Arnold Schönberg and his pupil Anton von Webern. Undecided
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richard barrett
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« Reply #80 on: 12:02:40, 11-11-2007 »

Not having listened to the programme (although it seems I should), my objection would be that Schoenberg never actually got to a point which could be described as "complete atonality" (nor, I think, would he have claimed to have done). I do think that the gradual loosening of the temporal necessity of tonal relations, announced (though not initiated) in Tristan, did inevitably lead to one of the possibilities being to abandon that sense of necessity altogether (after all, no other musical culture on the planet had been through the stage of feeling it in the first place), after which one of the possibilities would be to substitute some other "necessity" such as Schoenberg's twelve-tone method. Other composers did conceive of similar methods at about the same time, indeed, though it's unlikely that they would have gained the currency that they did without the advocacy of a personality as forceful as his. However, there were many paths away from tonality which were basically independent of Schoenberg's: Ives, Varèse, Scriabin, Scelsi, Xenakis...
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #81 on: 12:12:05, 11-11-2007 »

He was arguing instead, very persuasively I thought, that in the Second Quartet Schoenberg was sketching out, or hinting at, a whole range of possibilities of what could 'come next', and closing none of them off. All was possible.

I would further suggest that the path towards atonality in that piece very much does not proceed in a single direction. The famous 'ich fühle luft von anderem planeten' line is itself set rather 'more tonally' than for example the high violin figures at the beginning of the last movement.

And I'll wave a flag for my own hobbyhorse (er...) in also suggesting that a further development that led pretty directly away from a tonally centred way of thinking was the dominance of equal temperament...
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C Dish
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« Reply #82 on: 12:49:24, 11-11-2007 »

He was arguing instead, very persuasively I thought, that in the Second Quartet Schoenberg was sketching out, or hinting at, a whole range of possibilities of what could 'come next', and closing none of them off. All was possible.

I would further suggest that the path towards atonality in that piece very much does not proceed in a single direction. The famous 'ich fühle luft von anderem planeten' line is itself set rather 'more tonally' than for example the high violin figures at the beginning of the last movement.

And I'll wave a flag for my own hobbyhorse (er...) in also suggesting that a further development that led pretty directly away from a tonally centred way of thinking was the dominance of equal temperament...
Quite right, and I'm particularly glad you said "tonally centred...thinking" rather than "tonal thinking" -- in this regard I recall the composer Max Reger's line "any chord can follow any other chord." Thereafter it was just a matter of time before people realized that (1) "any note can follow any other note, or accompany any other note" and (2) "if I remain tonally oriented, there is no reason other than habit why my work should begin and end in one and the same tonality." The limits to these two principles were only the composer's volition and not some ponderously posited universal.
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inert fig here
oliver sudden
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« Reply #83 on: 23:24:01, 12-11-2007 »

Absolutely - the Hagens are fantastic in these pieces.

(The Pavel Haas Quartet aren't bad either, at least in no. 2 - I have no. 1 waiting on the desk for me to turn my attention to it. You do have to get them spread across 2 discs but the Haas quartets aren't bad either.)
I've heard the Haas Quartet's Janáček 1 now and it's gone to the top of my list. Stunning performance; read the December IRR if you want to know more. The Haas 1 and 3 are great pieces too.
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