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richard barrett
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« on: 21:38:05, 05-09-2007 » |
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Alistair recently mentioned that he'd been listening to one of Allan Pettersson's symphonies, which got my curiosity going, and I thought to myself that when my impecuniosity had alleviated somewhat I might follow his example, but then, having what I thought was a quick peek to see what was around, I found the complete symphonies on CD for £28, and nature took its course...
So I started yesterday with Symphony no.2 (1953), which as any fule kno is the first surviving one, and I was quite surprised at how imaginatively the orchestra is used, especially considering that it uses only double winds with no doublings (but four percussionists in addition to timpani) and how what sometimes seems like unpromising thematic material (often fragments of chromatic scales) unfolds in a consequent but still unpredictable way, often into accumulations of anguished counterpoint. It reminded me a little of the later symphonies of Penderecki but with more definition, more sense of a poetic journey being undergone and what I can only describe as more "undertow". So much for first impressions anyway.
Is anyone else interested in these works?
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Biroc
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« Reply #1 on: 21:47:09, 05-09-2007 » |
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I am...my old flatmate from New Zealand left me most of 'em when he had a breakdown and left to go home (along with a significant portion of my CD collection including complete Shost quartets, Weller's Beethoven cycle, Carter Quartets (first 4) and a whole load of other goodies...)...I think symph 8 is superb myself, but haven't listened to any of them for a while, so, with this inspiring thread, I will get round to that in the next 2/3 days...
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"Believe nothing they say, they're not Biroc's kind."
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Bryn
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« Reply #2 on: 21:56:36, 05-09-2007 » |
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I found the complete symphonies on CD for £28, and nature took its course...
I guess you got them the same place as I did, Richard. I started with number 7, as it seems to be the best known. I had to go out to get my ears 'syringed' half way through, but will return to it later. |
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pim_derks
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« Reply #3 on: 21:58:08, 05-09-2007 » |
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Many thanks for opening this discussion, Richard. There's only one symphony by Petterson that I know and that's number 9. A 75 minute work in one movement. I've always liked this symphony but I can understand why there are people who don't like it: listening to this piece is far from easy. I read somewhere that there are people who don't like the final bars ("Amen") but I think the end of this symphony is very beautiful, but oh, what it takes to get there! Some passages in this symphony remind me of Shostakovich, but in general I think this symphony is a highly original work. Funny detail: when you carefully listen to the last seconds of that CPO disc you can hear Alun Francis say "All right" to the orchestra.  |
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"People hate anything well made. It gives them a guilty conscience." John Betjeman
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richard barrett
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« Reply #4 on: 22:02:09, 05-09-2007 » |
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I started with number 7, as it seems to be the best known. I had to go out to get my ears 'syringed' half way through Yes, I've heard that some of those pieces can be a bit hard on the ears.  They don't often (ever?) get performed in these parts, do they? |
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Biroc
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« Reply #5 on: 22:13:04, 05-09-2007 » |
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Many thanks for opening this discussion, Richard. There's only one symphony by Petterson that I know and that's number 9. A 75 minute work in one movement. I've always liked this symphony but I can understand why there are people who don't like it: listening to this piece is far from easy. I read somewhere that there are people who don't like the final bars ("Amen") but I think the end of this symphony is very beautiful, but oh, what it takes to get there! Some passages in this symphony remind me of Shostakovich, but in general I think this symphony is a highly original work. Funny detail: when you carefully listen to the last seconds of that CPO disc you can hear Alun Francis say "All right" to the orchestra. I'd forgotten about that monster Pim, I'm spinning it as I write...I understand already ( 2mins in) what you mean about the Shos references which I think are orchestration (especially the way he writes for wind) issues...though I actually find it more lucid in texture than (for me) most of Dmitri's works...some really gorgeous contours in the melodic writing!! |
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"Believe nothing they say, they're not Biroc's kind."
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Bryn
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« Reply #6 on: 22:15:10, 05-09-2007 » |
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No, no, Richard. The appointment for the removal of the cerumen was made last Friday. It was just unfortunate that I had to abandon the 7th after 20 minutes to nip round to the surgery. |
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Ron Dough
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« Reply #7 on: 22:21:39, 05-09-2007 » |
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They don't often (ever?) get performed in these parts, do they?
No, but then you could say the same about virtually every C20th Scandinavian and Baltic symphony bar Nielsen and Sibelius, and if we're looking at the second half of the century, then it's virtually the whole of Europe that's excluded: a couple of Henze local premieres by Rattle, the odd Lutoslawski: even the better-known names, such as Penderecki, largely ignored. Even British symphonies outside the usual suspects are pretty much hen's teeth. The promoters are all counting on Mahler being great box-office next seaon, it seems; London will be knee deep in them. |
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ahinton
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« Reply #8 on: 23:00:06, 05-09-2007 » |
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Many thanks for opening this discussion, Richard.
There's only one symphony by Petterson that I know and that's number 9. A 75 minute work in one movement. I've always liked this symphony but I can understand why there are people who don't like it: listening to this piece is far from easy. I read somewhere that there are people who don't like the final bars ("Amen") but I think the end of this symphony is very beautiful, but oh, what it takes to get there! Some passages in this symphony remind me of Shostakovich, but in general I think this symphony is a highly original work.
It is indeed. The Shostakovich connections are at best tenuous, although I admit that they are not entirely absent (but then even Schönberg wrote of his much younger Russian contemporary as breathing symphonies, so...). The long string unison passage that precedes this plagal "Amen" is perhaps the most stunning thing in the entire work, being left hanging on the barbed wire, so to speak, as the only conceivable way out of the incessant emotional stockpiling that precedes it for so long; tghat plagal cadence itself is a gesture of nothing less than genius, I think - a lesser composer might simply have left the work having collapsed onto the uneasy balm of a chord of F major, but no, Allan Pettersson has to put the screws on even more by appending that plagal cadence, absurdly simple as it is after what has gone before yet all the more powerful for that very reason. "What it takes to get there", indeed! I wonder if Schönberg would likewise have claimed for Allan Pettersson that he "breathed" symphonies; it's not so obvious that he would have done so, yet at the same time it's arguably far from inconceivable... Best, Alistair |
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Biroc
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« Reply #9 on: 23:00:53, 05-09-2007 » |
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...I understand already ( 2mins in) what you mean about the Shos references which I think are orchestration (especially the way he writes for wind) issues...though I actually find it more lucid in texture than (for me) most of Dmitri's works...some really gorgeous contours in the melodic writing!!
Oh, and the incessant snare drum stuff is a tad reminiscent of old Shosty too...! |
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"Believe nothing they say, they're not Biroc's kind."
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Chafing Dish
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« Reply #10 on: 01:57:35, 06-09-2007 » |
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I will get round to that in the next 2/3 days. You can listen to all of them in just 16 hours? I guess Bryn and Richard won't be letting us in on where the bargain is? How 'bout via PM? |
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Bryn
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« Reply #11 on: 04:09:47, 06-09-2007 » |
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Sorry, they were available at that price via Amazon Marketplace. The cheapest there now cost another £20.  Happy hunting. |
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lovedaydewfall
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« Reply #12 on: 15:16:34, 06-09-2007 » |
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Many thanks for opening this discussion, Richard. There's only one symphony by Petterson that I know and that's number 9. A 75 minute work in one movement. I've always liked this symphony but I can understand why there are people who don't like it: listening to this piece is far from easy. I read somewhere that there are people who don't like the final bars ("Amen") but I think the end of this symphony is very beautiful, but oh, what it takes to get there! Some passages in this symphony remind me of Shostakovich, but in general I think this symphony is a highly original work. Funny detail: when you carefully listen to the last seconds of that CPO disc you can hear Alun Francis say "All right" to the orchestra. ><<<>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<::I am a great fan of Pettersson, esp. the symphonies. Oddly, I think the 9th is the least good, and I agree about the "Amen"! No. 1 doesn't exist, but I have 2-16 in various formats: unfortunately only a few on CD, the rest on cassette (poor quality tape) or LP's. Where on earth can you get the complete set for £28.00?  ? I've had to resort to buying the few CDs of them from New York, at a much less favourable price than that, even allowing for the good £/$ exchange rate. The first of them I ever heard was No. 6, in the late 1960s on a little tranny whilst walking around the streets of my home town. Hardly anything could be made out, and yet I could tell that here was something significant. Years later I played a reel-to-reel of the same work to a friend who didn't know any Pettersson, and she made a remark that I have always remembered: "As soon as it starts you know that something important is going to happen". For me Pettersson is one of the very greatest of 20th century composers, and I think it is highly significant for contemporary musical cultural values that he is so underrated. And I am completely at a loss to understand why I like Pettersson's works so much, and most other contemporary music so little! I do not find any similarity with Shostakovich - they inhabit completely different worlds. Sorry this sounds disjointed, but I don't know how to paragraph on this system. |
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richard barrett
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« Reply #13 on: 18:11:49, 06-09-2007 » |
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Sorry, they were available at that price via Amazon Marketplace. The cheapest there now cost another £20. Er, gosh! I'm amazed. Normally I don't move quickly enough to snap up such bargains. Moving on to no.3 tonight. |
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time_is_now
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« Reply #14 on: 18:22:50, 06-09-2007 » |
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Normally I don't move quickly enough to snap up such bargains.
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
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