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Author Topic: Poulenc  (Read 693 times)
ernani
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« on: 17:34:24, 10-09-2007 »

I just love the music of this endlessly fascinating and rewarding composer - thought it might be interesting to discuss/share some thoughts about him.
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roslynmuse
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« Reply #1 on: 17:53:55, 10-09-2007 »

Favourite pieces, ernani?

I have always enjoyed Les biches, Les mamelles de Tiresias, many of the songs (particularly Tel jour, telle nuit and Le bal masque), some of the piano music (Melancolie is a favourite), and a goodly amount of the choral music (a capella and with orchestra - Sept repons de tenebre and the Christmas/ Easter motets. I did the Mass in G with my chamber choir in the summer, difficult but well worth it!)

I'm less keen on the concertos, Carmelites and the chamber music (I've played the wind sonatas so many times...)

Lovable is the word - and deeply troubled, even under the froth and humour.

A genuinely human composer.
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #2 on: 18:09:39, 10-09-2007 »

OK - I don't know everything of Poulenc, but have heard (and played) a fair amount. It's appealing, diverting, charming, and occasionally can be very beautiful (for example, some moments in Les Soirées de Nazelle). But I find it hard to see how there's much more to it than that - I'm not suggesting that it would be lesser music by virtue of lack of Teutonic 'depth', but I don't find anything like the emotional complexity or sense of the unexplored that I do in, say, Debussy or Ravel, or Rachmaninoff, or Janácek. But I'm prepared to be convinced otherwise - interested to know how more people here would describe what they find to be its most striking qualities?
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
Chafing Dish
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« Reply #3 on: 18:12:54, 10-09-2007 »

During a recent library sale (giveaway, really), I picked up a free copy of a 1934 volume entitled Composers of Today -- with interesting career assessments of the young, stratospheric recommendations of the now-forgotten, and fancy prognoses for those in mid-career. Here is the last paragraph on Poulenc, which will surprise (and hopefully delight) Poulenc fans on these boards:

"Unfortunately, during the past ten years [i.e., 1924-1934], Poulenc's significance in modern music has greatly been diminished. Strange to say, the dissolution of the "French-six"-- which was such a happy event for the inspiration of Arthur Honegger and Darius Milhaud, leading them to their best and richest creations -- played havoc with Poulenc's art. At any rate, form the time he ceased to produce music under the banner of Erik Satie, his music lost its enormous zest and enthusiasm and became stiff with stilted accents. It is, of course, too soon to say that Poyulenc is thru [sic] as a composer: his early works contain too much talent for one to dismiss him because of subsequent tired efforts. But his importance has been definitely on the wane, and today his name plays a rôle in modern French music only because of the original owrks he produced during his youth."

Does this have anything in common with today's perceptions?

I like his song cycles Fiançailles pour Rire and Banalités, but retch at his overplayed Flute Sonata.
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #4 on: 18:22:33, 10-09-2007 »

I like all three operas...  LES MAMELLES DE TIRESIAS, DIALOGUES OF THE CARMELITES, and the mono-opera LA VOIX HUMAINE.  The article Chafing-Dish mentions above probably holds some truth in it - I think a lot of people were disappointed that the anarchy and bravado of Poulenc's early work was replaced by a dark boding...  WW2 evidently played a significant role in that changeover.  There is a theory that CARMELITES is an allegory of Vichy France's handover of the French jews to the Nazis,  although Poulenc's only recorded reaction to this (when doorstepped with the question by a journalist) was a rather curt "no comment".

Of the three of them I think the best writing is in THE CARMELITES, and several melodic motifs which interested the composer throughout his career can be heard there.  Perhaps the "pivotal character" is in fact the smallish role of Soeur Constance?  She seems at first to be a naive and childish girl, but mysteriously she has the gift of prophecy...  when the nuns are gathering after having their heads shaved, she says she knows the missing Blanche will come back "because I saw it in a dream".


Ksenia Vyaznikova as Madame de Croissy, THE CARMELITES, Helikon Opera, Moscow 2005

short video-clip ("promo") of above production: http://helikon.ru/img/karmelitki.wmv
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
-  Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
dotcommunist
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« Reply #5 on: 18:24:52, 10-09-2007 »

I can't stand that awful flute thing, and to think that it's been through so many flutes  Shocked.
whilst recently searching around Appolinaire for future opera themes, I stumbled accross this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Les_mamelles_de_Tir%C3%A9sias

...has anyone heard it (apart from Seiji Ozawa)? would anyone want to here it again???
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time_is_now
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« Reply #6 on: 18:27:08, 10-09-2007 »

whilst recently searching around Appolinaire for future opera themes, I stumbled accross this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Les_mamelles_de_Tir%C3%A9sias

...has anyone heard it (apart from Seiji Ozawa)? would anyone want to here it again???
You've lost me, dottie. Wink An ex-flatmate of mine did her PhD on it.
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roslynmuse
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« Reply #7 on: 18:29:50, 10-09-2007 »

I would say (not an original statement, but one that is nonetheless true) that Poulenc rediscovered himself by discovering the poetry of Paul Eluard and going back to his Catholic roots. And those events happened in 1935 and 1937. So I would agree with part of the assessment in CD's 1934 volume - those rather creaky concertos mostly date from the late 20s and early 30s. But I think the idea of Les Six as any sort of entity has long been discredited. It was a journalist's invention. Poulenc's early songs and piano pieces are a bit Satie-esque (perhaps) - there's a lot of Stravinsky there too, but after Les biches in 1924 he took some lessons with Koechlin and rather lost the plot...

Ian - I suggest you explore Figure humaine - there really is emotional complexity there. And many of his songs (I've already mentioned Tel jour, telle nuit) repay close study too.

DC - Les mamelles is (are!) well worth the trouble...
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dotcommunist
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« Reply #8 on: 18:32:31, 10-09-2007 »

DC - Les mamelles is (are!) well worth the trouble...

cheers, ros,
I usually like mamelles, I just haven't seen or heard Poulencs' , but if you say so, I'll certainly have a look.
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #9 on: 18:43:07, 10-09-2007 »

Poulenc's one of the deepest composers I know in comparison with what's on the surface; I don't think there's anything I've heard of his I didn't at least like and some of it as as gut-wrenching as almost anything I know.

Don't forget when considering events that changed his life the death of Pierre-Octave Ferroud in a car crash in 1936. That's not an original statement either but it's often considered to have been important in leading him back to his religion.
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #10 on: 18:45:14, 10-09-2007 »

I've got the Ozawa recording of LES MAMELLES - it's appropriately zany.  The piece is by no means as obscure as it might sound - it was in the ENO repertoire for ages - Marilyn Hill Smith and Emile Belcourt were the unhappy couple,  Belcourt excelled in the scene with the dozens of prams  (the newly-born babes are "voiced" by the members of the orchestra, singing falsetto). It was being conducted by Hazel Vivienne on its last time out, which was around 20 yrs ago now.  On the Ozawa disk the opera is partnered with an equally bizarre cantata for solo baritone, LE BAL MASQUE.
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
-  Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
roslynmuse
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« Reply #11 on: 18:55:55, 10-09-2007 »

Don't forget when considering events that changed his life the death of Pierre-Octave Ferroud in a car crash in 1936. That's not an original statement either but it's often considered to have been important in leading him back to his religion.


Absolutely true. He went on a pilgrimage to Rocamadour and had some sort of mystical/ revelatory experience.
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roslynmuse
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« Reply #12 on: 19:04:09, 10-09-2007 »

Reiner - am I correct in thinking that it was not entirely inappropriate that Hazel Vivienne should be conducting this particular opera? In which case I guess it must be rather more than twenty years ago.
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #13 on: 19:41:54, 10-09-2007 »

You're on the right lines there, Roslyn.  Smiley
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
-  Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
roslynmuse
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« Reply #14 on: 20:03:39, 10-09-2007 »

No-one has mentioned the original cast recording of Mamelles under Cluytens - terrific atmosphere and as zany as the score deserves!
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