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Author Topic: Jean Barraque  (Read 1194 times)
autoharp
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« Reply #15 on: 19:10:35, 20-12-2007 »

Le temps restitue

I deliberately left a listen to this work until later on - it was the only piece I didn't particularly warm to when I first heard it. This was ages ago in the ICA in London (early 1980s?) where a recording was played. I have a memory of it sounding surprisingly cluttered and overwritten (quite uncharacteristic of Barraque, this. Parts of, say, Chant apres chant may look cluttered in the score, but they certainly don't sound it). The ICA occasion, incidentally, was a prelude to an evening concert which consisted of Sequence (with Josephine Nendick) and Woodward playing the Sonata. Woodward took the rapturous applause with a huge beaming grin, clutching his dog-eared copy covered in multi-colour markings . . . and then sat down and played the whole thing again as an encore!
I've just come across this, which seems to suggest that he's played some sort of a version of a Second Sonata - anyone know anything about this?

http://www.rogerwoodward.com/index.php/background/more/world_premieres/

I still find Le temps restitue the least striking and the least convincing overall, although admirable in patches - but this may be simply be down to my not being particularly familiar with it. In places, there's less direction and too many close proximity climaxes. Certainly it doesn't sound quite as cluttered as I remember, but then probably both the 2e2m and KW recordings are better performances. The overall sound has sharper definition in the KW version (as with the Concerto), but the 2e2m account seems clearer and better balanced.
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autoharp
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« Reply #16 on: 16:40:04, 31-12-2007 »

I had another listen to the electronic Etude today, having remembered that it hadn't yet been mentioned on this thread. Rather strangely it seems more impressive on each repeated hearing, although the ending seems no less abrupt. It sounds as though Barraque planned something rather longer than what we're left with and was obliged to stop a third of the way through. My suspicion about Barraque's referencing (see . . au dela du hasard above) seems to have its confirmation here - there's what seems to be a pretty unsubtle allusion to the beginning of Clair de lune (of all things). It would be interesting to compare it with the efforts of his contemporaries: I've never heard the Boulez Etude, for example, although I do have fondish memories of Michel Philippot's Etude in comparison to the apparently serial Antiphonie and Vocalises of Pierre Henry.

But then Barraque's music does sound completely different to that of Boulez, however vaguely similar some of it does look on the page: I'm with Sydney on that one (Boulez 2nd sonata/Barraque sonata). Chafers's recommendation of the Henck recording of the sonata seems to be confirmed by a number of reviews I've read in the last couple of weeks. Unfortunately none of them, however, compares Henck's account with that of Roger Woodward, which seems to be universally accepted as the authoritative version of an earlier generation. Does anyone have views on this?

I've drawn a blank so far on whatever may or may not exist of the 2nd sonata. Roger Woodwards website is not accepting emails. Strangely it's not referred to in Paul Griffiths's book (as tinners has pointed out), whereas Bill Hopkins clearly states that "shortly before his death in August 1973 [Barraque] had turned aside from his other projects to compose a new sonata for him [Woodward]". This quote from the Woodward sonata record sleeve. I seem to remember this being mentioned in the programme note for Woodward's Roundhouse performances in 1972 (which Barraque attended), but I could be mistaken.
« Last Edit: 17:19:52, 31-12-2007 by autoharp » Logged
autoharp
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« Reply #17 on: 11:51:47, 20-01-2008 »

Last attempt!

Does anybody have any views to offer on the various recordings of the sonata from the last 30 years?
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Sydney Grew
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« Reply #18 on: 12:10:38, 20-01-2008 »

We would like to have a good look at the printed music before venturing anything much more. It is true that that did not stop us in the case of Stockhausen, but Barraqué was a rather more serious person was he not.

In the meantime we have acquired the scores of all Boulez's piano works and all Stockhausen's Pieces (indeed we now have in mind multiple additions to the latter's thread when we have nothing better to do); but is any Member able to direct us to something of the same kind in Barraqué's case?
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autoharp
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« Reply #19 on: 12:34:34, 20-01-2008 »

Thanks, Sydney.

Barraque's works were published by Bruzzichelli and reprinted by Barenreiter according to Griffiths's book.

http://www.baerenreiter.com/html/zeitgen/barraque/barraque.htm

Apparently the Bruzzichelli publications contained quite a few misprints: I'm not sure if they were ever corrected or even if there exists a fault-free edition of the Sonata in the public domain.
« Last Edit: 12:39:34, 20-01-2008 by autoharp » Logged
time_is_now
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« Reply #20 on: 14:41:49, 20-01-2008 »

I'm not sure if they were ever corrected or even if there exists a fault-free edition of the Sonata in the public domain.
There doesn't, but Herbert Henck's remarks (in the liner notes to his ECM disc) on constructing a performing score are quite interesting reading.

The fault wasn't really Bruzzichelli's or Bärenreiter's, incidentally. Barraqué seems not only to have been a sloppy proof-reader but also unable to add up, so that even referring to the autograph doesn't help in many/most cases.

I thought I'd asked your question about recordings somewhere else a year or so ago - maybe on the official R3 boards? The consensus seemed to be Henck, but there was someone else supposed to be quite different but also good, and worth comparing (not Stefan Litwin: I don't know anyone who rates his recording in the cpo box!).
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
autoharp
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« Reply #21 on: 15:32:45, 20-01-2008 »


I thought I'd asked your question about recordings somewhere else a year or so ago - maybe on the official R3 boards?

Ah - before my time. Sorry. That's probably why there's been little response.
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Evan Johnson
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« Reply #22 on: 17:31:36, 20-01-2008 »

I thought I'd asked your question about recordings somewhere else a year or so ago - maybe on the official R3 boards? The consensus seemed to be Henck, but there was someone else supposed to be quite different but also good, and worth comparing (not Stefan Litwin: I don't know anyone who rates his recording in the cpo box!).

Henck does it for me; the anti-consensus on Litwin is so remarkable (not sure I've seen anything like it in any other recording I can think of) that though I've had the box for a few years I've never even listened to it.

I've also heard good things about Woodward (very different from Henck; I've only heard it once and don't remember it that well) and Pi-Hsien Chen.
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richard barrett
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« Reply #23 on: 17:56:25, 20-01-2008 »

I thought I'd asked your question about recordings somewhere else a year or so ago - maybe on the official R3 boards? The consensus seemed to be Henck, but there was someone else supposed to be quite different but also good, and worth comparing (not Stefan Litwin: I don't know anyone who rates his recording in the cpo box!).

Henck does it for me; the anti-consensus on Litwin is so remarkable (not sure I've seen anything like it in any other recording I can think of) that though I've had the box for a few years I've never even listened to it.

I've also heard good things about Woodward (very different from Henck; I've only heard it once and don't remember it that well) and Pi-Hsien Chen.

The only ones I know are Litwin (another thumbs down I'm afraid), Woodward (long time since I listened with a score but I remember it as a bit cavalier rhythmically) and Helffer (which I used to love but I don't think it's been around for a long time). I would imagine on the basis of his other work that Henck would be both accurate and expressive, and Pi-Hsien Chen is one of my favourite pianists in this kind of repertoire.
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autoharp
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« Reply #24 on: 20:21:39, 26-01-2008 »

I imagine this was the thread from TOP which was referred to?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbradio3/F2620066?thread=3751589
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time_is_now
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« Reply #25 on: 23:57:07, 26-01-2008 »

I imagine this was the thread from TOP which was referred to?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbradio3/F2620066?thread=3751589
Yes, that's the post of Ian's I was thinking of, although I'd forgotten it occurred in the context of that discussion about Barraqué and Hopkins. (Sorry if it took you ages to find the old boards, autoh, I only just got your PM now.)
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
Sydney Grew
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« Reply #26 on: 00:18:13, 27-01-2008 »

The nine year old girl, who had in 1950 been born in Tai-Wan, was sent to Germany to continue her studies at the "Music-hoch-school" in Cologne.

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autoharp
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« Reply #27 on: 18:06:40, 24-03-2008 »

http://www.ensemble21.com/nonken/mn.rep.html#Barraque

This review by Paul Griffiths did make me grin, but I don't find it very informative. Has anyone heard her play Barraque?
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time_is_now
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« Reply #28 on: 20:53:21, 24-03-2008 »

http://www.ensemble21.com/nonken/mn.rep.html#Barraque

This review by Paul Griffiths did make me grin, but I don't find it very informative.
Really? It says more, and evokes more, than any of the other review quotes on that page as far as I can see.

I've never heard Marilyn Nonken play Barraqué, but I have her recordings of Feldman, Finnissy, etc. and she's an excellent pianist. I believe she's now playing with ELISION too?
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
Andy D
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« Reply #29 on: 22:36:43, 24-03-2008 »

I've never heard Marilyn Nonken play Barraqué, but I have her recordings of Feldman, Finnissy, etc. and she's an excellent pianist. I believe she's now playing with ELISION too?

I've got her recording of Feldman's Triadic Memories and it really is excellent, so much better than the Roger Woodward recording which I've also got - and which I can't listen to since I got the Nonken discs.
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