|
George Garnett
|
 |
« Reply #150 on: 23:44:30, 14-04-2007 » |
|
'Bright' is what the Bolshoi Ballet called it when their Reiner-recommended production came to London last year. Enjoyable it was too.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Sydney Grew
Guest
|
|
« Reply #151 on: 01:33:38, 15-04-2007 » |
|
Sydney Grewб Scriabin is very popular in Russia, as R_T knows. He never went out of fashion with musicians there. Authorities did not forbid him and he was played freely always as far as I know.
Stalin was such a tragedy for Russian people and for musicians in particular. . . One begins to understand Shostakovich more when one reads about his friends disappear right and left and central, lead away in the middle of the night and shot or send somewhere.
Dictatorship of the proletariat (as it was called) is costly and usually means dictatorship of primitive unimaginating people.
We thank Member Trained Pianist for her several contributions such as this, which give us all valuable insight and have in part prompted our own research, which is both sociological and psychological. We wonder whether she is a Christian like poor Tariq Aziz - a good man currently the victim of a terrible injustice delivered by similar primitive unimaginative people.  "Dictatorship of primitive unimaginative people" - indeed we like this phrase. Would not it fit very well also as an explanation in Sean's new thread about modern British musical life on the FoR3 message board? |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
trained-pianist
|
|
« Reply #152 on: 09:27:52, 15-04-2007 » |
|
Dear Sydney Grew, I enjoy your contributions very much. To be Christian (or any religion really) in Russia (where I grew up) was not possible. One had to be underground believer praying by himself and not sharing his views. There was no way one would be brought up like Christian. Religion was severely persecuted. As a result of such an upbringing I am relegious, but not affiliated with any religion or religious group. Even I so that I was born after Stalin's death people were well trained to be careful.
I am not very political (I don't like reading about politic or even look at it unlike my husband). I did not know Tariq Aziz is Christian and I don't know what happen to him. Some people think they can beat the system and use it for their gain. There were many people like that in Russia. Usually the system catches up with them.
Perhaps muslims (Iranians) are least tolerant religious people in our time.
I love many contributions and contributers here. Everybody makes different point and helps in understanding Schostakovich and his psyche. I remembered Schostakovich's ballet Golden Century time?). This is a ballet that is close in spirit with our time and particular this time in Russia. I think they staged it many times. Reiner may seen it.
Schostakovich understandably had to code his messages in his music while pretending to be social realism composer.
Is there any connection of using 4th and the fact that the symphony is number 4?
PS The idea that ballerinas are dancing in melon field is funny to me, but this is what they portrait in many movies of the time to. In my time we had to go for a few weeks in Fall to pick up potatoes. Everyone tried to escape. One could get a doctors sick leave. It was cold, not comfortable living conditions and hard work. However, students had some good time too.
|
|
|
|
« Last Edit: 09:31:23, 15-04-2007 by trained-pianist »
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Ron Dough
|
|
« Reply #153 on: 10:04:29, 15-04-2007 » |
|
Schostakovich understandably had to code his messages in his music while pretending to be social realism composer.
Is there any connection of using 4th and the fact that the symphony is number 4?
Good question t-p: I think the answer's yes, it's just one of the little springboards the composer used to set his work in motion: it's not used in every symphony, but I think I'm right in saying that his 7th is the only one with a seven-to-the-bar section (in the last movement). On the other hand, the 4th doesn't have the expected four movements, only three. But even now, just quickly before I dash off to do yet more work on Junior's flat, without time to look at a score or listen, I can think of two important themes which start with a rise of a fourth - the bassoon's in the first movement and perhaps even more crucially, the oboe's 'second verse' of the opening funeral march of the last which starts with a rise of a perfect fourth followed by another of an augmented fourth, which both have a huge impact on the work; these and the fact that his original opening motive (C - F - D?- G?) could be seen as the H - C - D - S version of the DSCH cell stretched based round a fourth rather than a minor third certainly make it possible to suggest that the use of the fourth in the 4th was intentional... |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Ian Pace
|
|
« Reply #154 on: 17:54:20, 15-04-2007 » |
|
Dictatorship of the proletariat (as it was called) is costly and usually means dictatorship of primitive unimaginating people.
Well, t-p, you did say elsewhere that 'I am not very political (I don't like reading about politic or even look at it unlike my husband)'. The above is certainly a highly political statement. I'm hoping very much that you mean that in the reality of Soviet Russia, a small clique of primitive unimaginative people ran things (one can have primitive imaginative people as well, mind you, they are not necessarily any better and indeed can be worse), rather than implying that the proletariat themselves are 'primitive unimaginating people'. Hmmm - the less said about your comments on Muslims and Iranians, the better, perhaps....  An essentially benevolent view of Shostakovich's relationship to the Stalinist regime, and his supposed use of coded messages, permeates much of this thread, and underlies some of the appreciation of his music. I might post something later drawing upon those who take a different view (not necessarily my view, but one I think should at least be addressed). |
|
|
|
« Last Edit: 18:30:54, 15-04-2007 by Ian Pace »
|
Logged
|
'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
|
|
|
|
lovedaydewfall
|
|
« Reply #155 on: 20:28:53, 15-04-2007 » |
|
Yes, you are right, Reiner about Scriabin orchestral music not being often played. Do you think Scriabin was influenced by Wagner a little?
Also are you sure you spell the name Muraveli correctrly? I knew composer Muradeli. He wrote some operas (not interesting by every body who heard it). I think he also write patriotic songs.
I am glad about Glier being rehabilitated. His music is some what old fashion. His ballet Red Poppy has that famous Russian sailors song in it.
I think many people here will not like his music.
Please write about Muraveli. I am currious.
/////////////<<<<<<<<<<<<<I think it is "MURADELI" with a "D". I have a tape of his 4th Symphony and I had the name transcribed from the broadcast in that form. The BBC some years ago did a very worthwhile series on Soviet composers, and this is where I got the recording. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
trained-pianist
|
|
« Reply #156 on: 21:41:50, 15-04-2007 » |
|
Ian. I do have some views of course. But like Checkov in his plays, I don't judge people. Who ever speak has his point and is right. As a result of such a personality I change my views and wayver. I have contradictions in my character and I argue with myself. It is hard to make decisions with such an approach to everything.
I think it is the best not to hate anybody and anything. It is better to understand than to hate (this is my theory). However, I am inconsistent.
I know many songs by Muradeli, lovedaydewfall, but I don't know his symphonies. I think they should be melodious because he was good melody writer in his songs. Many songs are very memorable and moving. I am surprised people here know him.
He did make a career in composer union and was liked by the authorities. However, may be his time will come who knows. Do you know how many symphonies he has?
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Sydney Grew
Guest
|
|
« Reply #157 on: 02:07:21, 16-04-2007 » |
|
Vano Muradeli was born in Gori in 1908, and expired in 1970. Grove, in a "selective list," lists only two symphonies, those completed in the years 1938 and 1944 respectively, but that is not to say that there may not be more. He also wrote light and cheery music such as the operettas: "The Girl with Blue Eyes" of 1965, and "Moscow - Paris - Moscow" of 1968.   (Sorry about the stripes but it came that way.) One of his most renowned works is the opera "The Great Friendship" of 1947. At first however it received bad reviews because of its dissonances. Muradeli, Procophieff, and Shortacowitch acquired the well-deserved nickname of "formalists" in that year because of their peculiar music and their love of discord. Muradeli wrote no concertos that we can see, but did produce more than two hundred art-songs. Among these are "Friendship is Dearest of All", "Song about Friends", "Waltz of Dreams and Friendship", and "We are on our Way, Friends." All in all he sounds to have been a jolly amicable chap! Indeed he reminds us a lot of the great Scottish thinker Hugh Black, author of "The Dream of Youth" (1894), "Friendship" (1897), "The Choice of Friendship" (1903), "The Culture of Friendship", "The Fruits of Friendship", "The Higher Friendship", "The Miracle of Friendship", and, much later, after he had for some mysterious reason gone off to live in America, "The Cleavage" (1920). |
|
|
|
« Last Edit: 14:31:59, 16-04-2007 by Sydney Grew »
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Bryn
|
|
« Reply #158 on: 04:58:36, 16-04-2007 » |
|
In 1939 Prokofiev toasted Stalin on his 60th birthday, and Muradeli wrote "Our Leader" for the same occasion. Two years later Muradeli also wrote a "Zdravitsa", but who was he toasting? I wonder if the recording of Muradeli's Symphony in memory of Kirov will ever get an outing on CD. Re. "[The] Great Friendship": http://listserv.uh.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0303&L=dsch-l&T=0&O=D&P=14505 |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
oliver sudden
|
|
« Reply #159 on: 09:09:30, 16-04-2007 » |
|
"Cleavage" (1920). We are inclined to place this rather high up our informal list of Unfortunate Titles. Jostling for place perhaps with Takemitsu's And then I knew 'twas wind. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
martle
|
|
« Reply #160 on: 09:30:44, 16-04-2007 » |
|
Ollie Do you feel a new thread coming on then?  |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Green. Always green.
|
|
|
|
Ron Dough
|
|
« Reply #161 on: 09:46:41, 16-04-2007 » |
|
Bryn,
Many thanks for bringing that document to our attention. (Incidentally, does anyone else feel that it bears certain resonances not unconnected with recent events chez Radio3? It's far more doctrinal than 'Auntie knows best', yet there's the same arrogant supposition that the musical tastes of the many can be dictated and controlled by the theories of the few.)
Anyone who has heard the earlier works of Shostakovich, such as the second and third symphonies, written in a short-lived period of artistic freedom where experimentation was not only permitted but almost certainly encouraged, must be even more aware after reading the linked document that the major Soviet composers of the period were now facing considerable opposition and growing control.
Perhaps a modern analogy might be Birtwistle, Ferneyhough et al. being advised by the TGWU to write only music that would have suited Brian Kay's Light Programme or face exile, incarceration or worse....
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
oliver sudden
|
|
« Reply #162 on: 10:01:54, 16-04-2007 » |
|
That would be the Ferneyhough who last lived in the UK in 1968? (Not that the situation really compares except in that rather trifling detail, of course.) |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Ron Dough
|
|
« Reply #163 on: 10:17:41, 16-04-2007 » |
|
OK Guv, it's a fair cop: (I had originally written Barrett as the second name, but changed it at the last minute). Even so, the point about having your creativity micro-managed by a non-specialist committee (where previously you've been given free rein to experiment) on pain of the direst consequences can't be reinforced enough, I feel.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Sydney Grew
Guest
|
|
« Reply #164 on: 10:30:28, 16-04-2007 » |
|
. . . exile, incarceration, or worse . . . on pain of the direst consequences With respect, we see no reference to any of those in the document. Where and how do they come into the picture? |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
