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Author Topic: who was Shostakovich?  (Read 25287 times)
Ron Dough
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« Reply #165 on: 10:54:46, 16-04-2007 »

Quite correct, Mr Grew; the penalties are not mentioned in the document, which concentrates purely on the expected standards, and singles out those who are considered to have deviated.

 That particular committee would surely have been unlikely to have been dealing with the actual consequences of such behaviour, or at least to have been seen to be so doing. Surely there's no doubt about the vast oppression that this regime exercised upon the people, and that the fear that such punishments could be meted out at any moment to anyone, for any reason (or none) when it was happening to others all round them must have been ever-present, to say the least.
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trained-pianist
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« Reply #166 on: 11:04:14, 16-04-2007 »

Thank you Bryn for this document. CC is Central Commettee. Imagine decisions about music were made on the level of Prime Minister Office. It was important for them what the Soviet people were listening to. I did not read to the end, but it sound scary to me. I knew Muradeli's music mostly in songs. May be he was a good composer after all who had to adopt to this conditions.
How many symphonies did he write? Some people say he has 2 symphonies, and others say 4. Do we know?

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Ian Pace
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« Reply #167 on: 13:48:16, 16-04-2007 »

Perhaps a modern analogy might be Birtwistle, Ferneyhough et al. being advised by the TGWU to write only music that would have suited Brian Kay's Light Programme or face exile, incarceration or worse....

There is a wonderful document produced in 1945 by the Workers' Music Association, with really forward-looking suggestions for new music, education, and so on. When I'm back home again, I will post some longer bits; they called for a high standard of musical education and provision for all, asserting confidently that 'Musicians are educators, and the quality of what they give undoubtedly affects the musical level of the community and helps to determine whether it is a high level or a low one’ , as well as sounding a note of scepticism about the personality cults around performers that were engendered by commercialisation.

One certainly should not assume that workers or democratic workers' associations would necessarily wish composers only to write light music.
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
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« Reply #168 on: 14:02:35, 16-04-2007 »

I can not compare CC (Central Committee documents and directive to anything you have in Britain, cerainly not Prime Minister Office. Here you have oposition, there will be a public outcry and decision would be changed or softened.
It was one party state and a crazy one at that. All decisions were final and terminal.

When I lived in the Soviet Union I thought that Muradeli was official composer that was loved by party who wrote patriotic songs and probably not interesting operas (I never heard the opera) or symphony, did not know he had any  symphony. His patriotic songs Buchenvald (concentration camp during WWII) always made a strong impression on me.
The words go like that: People of the world stop for a minut, Listen, Listen, the sound of the bell in everywhere. It is Bells of Buchenvald everywhere are ringing. I forgot some of it, but at one point it says: There are people that came to life from ashes and they are alive from ashes.
The music is strong and never fails to bring tears to my life. To write a good song is difficult too.

It turns out he suffered like the rest of the population and composers. Did he really write clashing dissonant music?
I think we need another thread. However this discussion is helpful in terms of putting Schostakovich life and music in context.
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #169 on: 14:53:08, 16-04-2007 »

I think it is worth pointing-out that the "proletariat" in the USSR never "decided" anything.  The decisions were made on their behalf and in their name by professional revolutionaries.

The idea that "workers" chose what kind of music ought to be played is already nonsense - there was no structure by which they would have had any means of voicing such opinions (or indeed, opinions on any other matter).

As I've said elsewhere, the bizarre anomaly that western classical music was promoted and encouraged in the USSR arose merely because Lenin and his wife Krupskaya liked it, and believed - with no foundation for such belief - it was "morally beneficial".  It also formed part of the official USSR doctrine of replacing religion with culture.  For those who are saying, "well, no actual harm done", it's worth pointing out that the native non-Russian musical traditions in the USSR (which covered lots of non-Russian areas like Central Asia, Persia, Georgia etc) were ruthlessly stamped-out.  It's worth reading Anna Reid's "The Shaman's Coat", as one of the few English-language sources on how the USSR actually treated the "people's" languages, music and culture.  The colossal inequality of all non-Russians within the Russian Empire had been one of the biggest rallying-calls the Bolshevik side could muster - with promises that were to prove traitorously false in the deliverance.
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
-  Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
Ian Pace
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« Reply #170 on: 15:05:47, 16-04-2007 »

Is a comparison between how organisations which claimed to represent the 'workers' in the USSR (though, as Reiner rightly points out, this was nothing more than a facade) conditioned and censored Shostakovich's work, and how actual workers' associations elsewhere view the same matters, really so irrelevant to this thread? Has there ever been a piece of writing on Shostakovich that has made no mention whatsoever of the relationship between his work and the conditions under which he lived (just as such things are mentioned in most studies of composers' lives and works)?

Maybe that's just too 'political', though. Oh well, maybe you'll have to throw me off the board now.
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
John W
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« Reply #171 on: 15:07:05, 16-04-2007 »

There is too much political discussion on this thread, moderators have received complaints. Further such postings may be removed.

There is a wonderful document produced in 1945 by the Workers' Music Association..... when I'm back home again, I will post some longer bits.......


No, Ian, don't.


John Wright
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #172 on: 15:14:12, 16-04-2007 »

But meantime I have been enjoying a marvellous box set of the Shostakovich String Quartets, which I got from MDC whilst in London for just 11.50 for five disks, in a lovely recording by the Rubio Quartet made in 2002, on the Brilliant Classics label.

Although I have several of the quartets on individual disks and in multiple recordings, I've never had all of them before - so I've dived in to listen first to the ones I hardly know,  starting with No #2,  a substantial and meaty four-movement work.  The extended "Recitative & Romance" slow movement is the longest (in duration) of all four movements, and is a thing of such captivating beauty that I've been relistening to it in isolation a few times today.  The Waltz which follows it has more of the "madcap" young DSCH traits about it.  And it's a pleasant change to hear some Shostakovich that hasn't got a sidedrum in it :-)

Who else loves these marvellous pieces?  I have a sneaking preference for No #15, of them all, but this is largely due to the circumstances in was seriously introduced to it - within the context of Simon McBurney's Shostakovich bio-drama play THE NOISE OF TIME, in which the Brodskys performed alongside Theatre de Complicite, and performed the complete quartet.

« Last Edit: 15:21:45, 16-04-2007 by Reiner Returns » Logged

"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
-  Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
Sydney Grew
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« Reply #173 on: 16:04:13, 16-04-2007 »

And it's a pleasant change to hear some Shostakovich that hasn't got a sidedrum in it . . .

Indeed that is a sentiment with which all persons of sound mind may at last agree without reservation. How those constant rat-a-tats plague the sensitive listener!

With the present discouragement of political comment the labour involved in our forthcoming review of the Eighth Symphony is at a stroke considerably reduced. We had always intended to criticise it as absolute music in any case, rather than as some sort of rival to Beethoven's Wellington's Victory. The research we have been undertaking is to clarify the composer's character and motives, rather than his political position (if any). That does not however mean that we are not still on the look-out for the truth about the fate of the aforementioned Mikhail Kvadri in particular, which truth might well assist our insight into said character and motives. If necessary the information if any one finds it out could be conveyed to us as the moderator suggests by way of private message.
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trained-pianist
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« Reply #174 on: 17:24:48, 16-04-2007 »

It is hard to discuss Shostakovich without touching on political issues at least a little.
From one point of view he had sheltered life (compared to his western collegues), on the other hand he had to pay for his priviledges (he had no choice anyway).
He lived in prestigious appartment. Volkov describe it well. Friends of Maxim felt shy when visiting and they were overwhelmed with the appartment.
Also about music of different nationalities. They were suppressed may be, but at the same time they were promoted as well. We were listening to Azerbaizhan's music and Georgian music (in moderation) on the radio. How they could combine promoting national music (Khachaturian) and stiffle it I don't know.

Music of Shostakovich is connected to his time very much, but also universal. There were many good points in late socialism. I think they through the baby out with the water during transition.

I wanted to ask what piano music Ian and other pianists played by Shostakovich if any. I only played his Prelude and Fugues I think as far as I can remember.
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #175 on: 17:49:33, 16-04-2007 »

Quote
How they could combine promoting national music (Khachaturian) and stiffle it I don't know.

I understand exactly what you mean, here, t-p... it's my fault for not explaining more clearly what I meant.  The music which I said was suppressed and stifled was the "folk" music of various different peoples.  Of course, with 15 USSR Republics, each had to have something to be proud of.  Although I have talked to Armenian musicians like the pianist Mikhail Egizaryan and conductor/impresario Mark Aghbalyants, and they don't even consider Khachaturian's music to be Armenian...  "it's in the Leningrad soviet style, without Armenian feeling or content".  I was a little surprised by this, because I felt works like the Second Piano Concerto (especially the second movt - do you play that one, t-p?) are full of what I imagined was Armenian melodic material. 

But regarding the "folk" material, this was suppressed in areas like Khakhassia, Tuva, and amongst many of the "People Of The North", mainly because the lyrics, and social context of the music, was inextricable from animist and shamanist beliefs.  Shamanism wasn't even considered a religion by the soviets, but a social ill like alcoholism or illiteracy, and its adherents were dealt with severely.  A rather distant acquaintance of mine is Dr Mongush Kenin-Lopsan, a Tuvan ethnographer who chronicled the history of these matters.  His sister was out walking one day when she was arrested by police for wearing Tuvan National Costume... they alleged she was a shaman.  She was summarily shot,  and Kenin-Lopsan lost his position in the Academy of Sciences of Siberia, merely on the basis of being her brother.   There were lots more folk-songs of the Russian East, which were all banned because they hymned the annual round of sowing and harvest, and thus could barely avoid mentioning either God, or the Lord of the Manor, or both.  I have an ethnographer friend in Irkutsk who's trying to collect and collate whatever is left... but it was an oral tradition, and almost nothing remains.  The instruments, too, were abandoned... neither concertina nor accordion is native to Russia, they were introduced by the Communists in the name of "progress".

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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
-  Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
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« Reply #176 on: 18:23:32, 16-04-2007 »

R_T, It is a tragedy for Russian people as well as non Russians. I suppose non Russians suffered more because there was too much Russian influence on their traditional songs. I like Khachaturyan, but may be he molded Armenian melodies according to Russian (Central) tastes.
Small nationalities suffered more than bigger ones. Bigger were allowed more identity.
Did Schostakovich use any other nationality songs? I know he used Jewish songs (poetry) which was a protest in a way because of antisemitism etc.
When I was teaching in music school in Russia we had ocasional Armenian tune or others. Later they became more interesting, but the antagonism between nationalitied and resentment could not be helped. It is very sad really.

I think Schostakovich was mainly Russian composer. One can hear his Russian roots I think. His connection is with Tchaikovsky, but also with western music. I don't think he had interest in other nationalities folklore. Am I right?

There were composers like Kara Karaev and some others that I can not remember at the moment. I remember Eshpai. They all knew each other and music of each other. This were russified composers I suppose that used their own national material.
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #177 on: 19:10:57, 16-04-2007 »

This is an interesting topic which does indeed have a bearing on Shostakovich's music in the larger picture.

One constant aim of the USSR was to create "one great Soviet people", and quietly expunge the national characteristics of different parts of the country... or rather, to absorb them into one homogenous whole.   I quite agree with you that there's a strong influence of Tchaikovsky upon Shostakovich's writing...  but perhaps that wasn't wanted?    To what extent was there a feeling amongst ALL of those composers in the 1920s and 1930s that they were creating a new genre - soviet music - which had not only musical, but also extra-musical responsibilities?

I suggest this because such feeling definitely existed in the other arts...  Mayakovsky's poetry and plays, Meyerhold's revolutionary new approachs to staging drama,  plays that didn't have an "author" at all but arose out of intense group improvisation work using Stanislavsky techniques, the new art of Lisitsky, Malevich, Klutsis etc.

Shostakovich was - until he was banned from doing so - a composer fascinated with the theatre, and he couldn't have avoided the cross-pollination that occured from these other creators of "new soviet arts"...   to what extent was in harmony with these ideas, to what extent would the new arts draw on the old,  and how far should they distance themselves from previous work?


Lissitsky - creating a whole new "soviet" art...
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
-  Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
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« Reply #178 on: 19:37:56, 16-04-2007 »

At first there was enthusiasm in "intelligenzia" of Art community. There was great international feelings (my grandma told me, she was not Russian). Shostakovich was influenced by the atmosphere. After zar's opressive regime that was awakening. 
Curiously Shostakovich failed ideological exam on Marx something (we all had to do it). Shostakovich also wrote a funeral march on death of two kadets. This is big minus for anybody, very incorrect step.
His piano style said to be dry. I never heard him playing.
This early period ended probably in 1936 with first denonciation by party. This period ends with perhaps 3rd symphony (may be fourth?).
There is Lady of Mzensk in this period and Nose operas. Solertinsky was a very well known musicologist. Shostakovich is introduced to Mahler's music by Solertinsky and they say this influence is in his fourth symphony and after.
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Ron Dough
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« Reply #179 on: 19:45:03, 16-04-2007 »

Rei...

Two Katchaturian piano concerti? Are you sure? As far as I ever known there was just one (with the folksy slow movement with optional flexatone part). Two by Shostakovich, yes, but surely only one from the Armenian?

t-p,

I'd also query Mahelerian infuence in Shostakovich only starting with the fourth symphony: surely the choral finale of his second really couldn't have been inspired by anyone else?

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