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Author Topic: what is 21st century music actually?  (Read 4061 times)
Tony Watson
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« Reply #75 on: 17:29:13, 30-03-2007 »

Of course quartertone is counting 1900 as the first year of the 20th century. But they knew better 100 years ago. If you look at newspapers of the time there was no confusion. The beginning of the 20th century was commemorated on 1 January 1901. In the Pirates of Penzance, Gilbert made the mistake of assuming that 1900 was a leap year, when it wasn't.
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harmonyharmony
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« Reply #76 on: 18:33:14, 30-03-2007 »

Erm...1999 was the 100th year of the 20th century. 0-99 makes a hundred numbers. Wink

Eh quartertone, the millenium started 1 A.D. (first year of the lord; there wasn't a 0 year, in a timeline we go from 1 B.C. to 1 A.D.) so the first century ended Dec 100 A.D., 2nd century ended Dec 200 .... 20th century ended Dec 2000. But, with a technical name like quartertone, you knew that  Cheesy  Wink
OK. Time to be even more pedantic (and I'm fairly sure that someone else will come along to beat this).
The first millenium A.D. didn't even start with 1 A.D.
It was a few years later that they decided on the calendar, so we should really say that the first millenium A.D. is considered to start with 1 A.D.
Let alone the fact that they guessed (probably) wrong when Jesus of Nazareth was born, so that it's probably something like 2001 this year...
So maybe that's the problem - we haven't actually heard that much 21st century music because we've only had 3 months of it!

I'll get my coat.
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #77 on: 18:35:25, 30-03-2007 »

Errrrrrrrrrrrr - how about some more pieces (including those from 2000, maybe even a few started in 1999)?
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
aaron cassidy
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« Reply #78 on: 20:03:34, 30-03-2007 »

Errrrrrrrrrrrr - how about some more pieces (including those from 2000, maybe even a few started in 1999)?

Was a bit surprised by some of the works on your list, actually, Ian.  (Namely, it seems primarily a late-20th century list of composer names (w/ one or two exceptions) -- that list could've been made in the 70s or 80s, but perhaps more on that in another post.)

Here's a very hastily thrown-together list of works from the last 7-8 yrs that I find particularly exceptional, for one reason or another:

I'll start by seconding your vote for DARK MATTER
Beat Furrer:  Aria (1999), FAMA (2005)
Jürg Frey:  Second String Quartet (2000)
Peter Ablinger:  QUADRATUREN V ("MUSIK") (2000); Two Strings and Noise (2004) (which goes down as, by far, the weirdest piece I know)
Benedict Mason:  felt|ebb|thus|brink|here|array|telling (2001)
Stefano Gervasoni:  Godspell (2002)
Pierluigi Billone:  Mani. Giacometti (2000)


There are plenty of others, but that'll do for now.

This list leaves out lots of recent favorites from the middle/end of the last decade (several works by Billone, Bauckholt, Haas, earlier Ablinger, etc., etc.), but, we've already agreed this is an artificial exercise w/ an artificial temporal boundary, so ... there we are.

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Ian Pace
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« Reply #79 on: 20:10:37, 30-03-2007 »

Was a bit surprised by some of the works on your list, actually, Ian.  (Namely, it seems primarily a late-20th century list of composer names (w/ one or two exceptions) -- that list could've been made in the 70s or 80s, but perhaps more on that in another post.)

No remote claims to comprehensiveness or even particular contemporaneity - just wanted to make a start.

Could you say a bit more about the Mason and Gervasoni pieces in particular?

(what I've heard of FAMA (not all of it) has been really exceptional)

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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
aaron cassidy
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« Reply #80 on: 21:02:56, 30-03-2007 »

No remote claims to comprehensiveness or even particular contemporaneity - just wanted to make a start.

I was just a bit surprised to see so many names of an older generation, and in several cases, my sense is that the recent works of these composers is somewhat backward-looking and quite a bit less innovative than their earlier (20th C.) work (Dillon & Dusapin, in particular, but also Ferneyhough) or isn't markedly different from the work they were doing 20-40 yrs ago (Lachenmann, Finnissy, Birtwistle, Sciarrino). 

I'll absolutely agree w/ you on the Lachenmann Concertini (which really is quite stunning), but I'm less convinced by the recent Ferneyhough (which seems rather old-fashioned to me in a lot of respects).

Could you say a bit more about the Mason and Gervasoni pieces in particular?

Sure. 

I'm actually slightly ambivalent about the Gervasoni, having to do almost entirely w/ objections about the vocal writing and text setting (and, well, actually the text itself).  The instrumental writing, though, is really quite fascinating and was/is unlike anything else I've heard.  On a surface level, it's quite timbrally inventive, but much more to the point, from an orchestrational perspective it really does strike me as quite innovative (something I see in much of Gervasoni's work, along w/ a few others who are loosely affiliated ... Erik Ona, Carola Bauckholt, Caspar Johannes Walter, etc.).  Without going into too much detail, it has for me to do w/ combinations of instrumental timbres/textures and a kind of extension of the 'hyper-instrument' approach to instrumental resources that one sees in the Thurmchen's & elsewhere.

The Mason is stunning on every level.  I haven't heard a more sonically innovative piece in many, many years.  I find the notion of site-specific concert-installations quite interesting (and ripe for further investigation), his approach to instrumentation (including the work w/ newly-invented instruments (mvt. no. 8 "for Metal Tubes With Resonance Holes" is my favorite)) is extremely exciting and unique, plus the extensions and innovations w/ spatialization of instruments, etc., etc. ... but really what it comes down to is the sounds themselves, which I find utterly fascinating.  I also rather like the matter-of-factness of the form of the work as a collection of explorations of a series of timbres that are directly connected to a) their instruments (particularly important w/ the invented instruments) and b) the manner in which those instruments are played (the material w/ which the instruments are bowed/struck/plucked, etc.).
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richard barrett
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« Reply #81 on: 23:54:21, 30-03-2007 »

Aaron,

I've heard Gervasoni's Godspell and indeed had quite a good look at the score, and I have to say it struck me as, well, not putting too fine a point on it, rubbish. So I'd be very interested to know what wou found attractive about it, because whatever it was it must have passed me by completely...
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xyzzzz__
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« Reply #82 on: 00:14:04, 31-03-2007 »

Must check the Mason - like the disc on Bridge quite a lot. "Lighthouses.." wasn't really all that.

Wanted to hear the recent disc you mention but never thought the ideas would come off on CD.
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aaron cassidy
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« Reply #83 on: 00:36:56, 31-03-2007 »

Must check the Mason - like the disc on Bridge quite a lot.  Wanted to hear the recent disc you mention but never thought the ideas would come off on CD.

I'm not really a huge fan of the Bridge disc on the whole, though there are some strong moments.

The new col legno disc, though, really is something.  I imagine it's a different experience from actually hearing the piece live (what recording isn't?), but it's still a very special listen and well worth the purchase.
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aaron cassidy
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« Reply #84 on: 01:00:48, 31-03-2007 »

Aaron,

I've heard Gervasoni's Godspell and indeed had quite a good look at the score, and I have to say it struck me as, well, not putting too fine a point on it, rubbish. So I'd be very interested to know what wou found attractive about it, because whatever it was it must have passed me by completely...

I already took a stab at that once in reply to Ian's question, but ... I'll try again. 

I haven't heard the piece in over a year, so perhaps I'll pull it back out and give it another listen, but what I can say was that it was one of the highlights of Huddersfield '05 for me (I certainly wasn't alone -- perhaps we heard a particularly strong performance of the piece).  As I said earlier, I have some objections to the text, the text setting, and the vocal writing (though wouldn't go nearly so far as to call it "rubbish"), but I found the instrumental writing extremely interesting and exciting, and, in particular, the interaction b/t the rather unique percussion setup (CD cases on plate glass, coke bottles, and the like) and the rest of the ensemble.  (What I found most interesting was the hyper-instrument approach vis a vis timbre/register/texture/dynamics/etc. ... individual sonic events from various instruments combining neither to create polyphonic interactions nor single/singular textures but some sort of hybrid (and, as I said, this is something I see in several of Gervasoni's friends/colleagues as well, whose works I generally enjoy as well).

What didn't you like about it?  Are there other pieces of his that you like, or is this representative of a general dislike of Gervasoni's work?
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Sydney Grew
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« Reply #85 on: 01:24:49, 31-03-2007 »

I found the instrumental writing extremely interesting and exciting, and, in particular, the interaction b/t the rather unique percussion setup (CD cases on plate glass, coke bottles, and the like) and the rest of the ensemble.  (What I found most interesting was the hyper-instrument approach vis a vis timbre/register/texture/dynamics/etc. ... individual sonic events from various instruments combining neither to create polyphonic interactions nor single/singular textures but some sort of hybrid . . .

But surely, what was good enough for Brahms . . .
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Bryn
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« Reply #86 on: 01:30:15, 31-03-2007 »



But surely, what was good enough for Brahms . . .


was developed and improved upon by his disciple Arnold Schoenberg.
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richard barrett
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« Reply #87 on: 17:29:08, 31-03-2007 »

Well, Aaron, where to start. The text, to begin with, is embarrassingly bad, the kind of thing that might be chosen by someone with no more than a sketchy idea of the language it's written in, though whether that's actually the case I don't know. (I believe one of the lines is "Nothing to do, chants the toilet". Quite so, thought I.) The vocal writing is extremely unidiomatic, with considerable compromises having to be made to make it "possible" (ie. fakeable) anywhere near the notated tempi. The percussion setup is one of those that consists of a truckload of stuff most of which is only used once or twice, and to my mind therefore as a reservoir of sound effects rather than an instrument. I didn't find the writing for the other instruments or the structure of the piece particularly interesting either, so I suppose my answer to your question is "approximately nothing". Good to hear that someone found something to like in it though! I've only heard one other piece by Gervasoni, a percussion solo, which I thought was if anything worse. (Which doesn't encourage me to investigate further of course...) Regarding his Italian contemporaries, I have enjoyed a few pieces by Billone, but for my taste they tend to meander along a bit purposelessly, and worryingly I prefer the earlier ones. I was very struck by a string quartet by Giorgio Netti, but subsequently heard an hour-long piece of his for solo soprano saxophone which in comparison I found massively misjudged and weak (and even weaker in comparison with people like Evan Parker, John Butcher or Steve Lacy).
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #88 on: 16:53:09, 01-04-2007 »

I was very struck by a string quartet by Giorgio Netti, but subsequently heard an hour-long piece of his for solo soprano saxophone which in comparison I found massively misjudged and weak (and even weaker in comparison with people like Evan Parker, John Butcher or Steve Lacy).

Many supposedly wild solo sax pieces inevitably suffer from such comparisons (playing a notated score which consists of the sorts of sounds one might hear in a free improvisation is very different to hearing an improvisation itself); one of the most striking ones, however, I have heard is Volker Heyn's Buon Natale, fratello Fritz!. Amazing stuff.
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
richard barrett
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« Reply #89 on: 20:07:15, 01-04-2007 »

Netti's solo sax piece isn't at all wild though, it's mostly pretty laid-back and a large part of it consists of reasonably restrained-sounding multiphonics. Nor did it seem to me to have the kind of structural characteristics which can only arise from notated composition, as opposed to improvisation - indeed it had a rambling kind of form which many would associate with "improvisatory" playing (although rambling is actually not much more prevalent in improvised music as it is in notated music).
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