The Radio 3 Boards Forum from myforum365.com
07:54:02, 02-12-2008 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Whilst we happily welcome all genuine applications to our forum, there may be times when we need to suspend registration temporarily, for example when suffering attacks of spam.
 If you want to join us but find that the temporary suspension has been activated, please try again later.
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  

Pages: 1 ... 5 6 [7] 8
  Print  
Author Topic: what is 21st century music actually?  (Read 4061 times)
aaron cassidy
****
Posts: 499



WWW
« Reply #90 on: 05:42:34, 02-04-2007 »

I'll actually post a proper reply as soon as I can, but ... briefly:

I intentionally avoided replying w/ my own views about the works on Ian's list initially (I think, for example, that The Book of Elements is utterly ghastly and embarrassing) b/c it seemed more interesting and useful to get a cross section of names/pieces rather than squabbling over unanimity about the pieces posted.  I don't want the conversation to get diverted into a discussion of the merits of Godspell -- I'd rather see other lists from other posters!  (Richard, Evan, James Weeks, xyzzz, Stuart, etc., etc. .....?)

That said, I'll try to respond to the issues with the text in the Gervasoni and, much more importantly, the issue of "sound effects" (a comment with which I strongly disagree!) once I've finished my teaching duties tomorrow ....
« Last Edit: 05:44:47, 02-04-2007 by aaron cassidy » Logged
quartertone
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 159



« Reply #91 on: 21:15:53, 16-04-2007 »

I think, for example, that The Book of Elements is utterly ghastly and embarrassing

Funny, that's exactly what I thought of Godspell when I heard it. My reaction was much the same as Richard's (and I remember that very same line of text!) - a combination of inanely poor poetry, superficial effects and pure thinness (being generous) of discourse. And Lore Lixenberg's hammy performance didn't exactly make things better.
Logged
quartertone
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 159



« Reply #92 on: 12:27:28, 17-04-2007 »

OK. Time to be even more pedantic (and I'm fairly sure that someone else will come along to beat this).

That's right.

Historians these days date the birth of Christ to between 2 BC and 8 BC. There was a clerical error made by the Scythian monk Dionysius Exiguus (c. 470-550) when he created a new calendar system based on the Roman one, based on mistaken information as to the rule of the emperor Octavius Augustus; it accounts for 7 years. That would make the birth 7 BC, though other historical parameters make that a little less certain. So I think the turn of the millenium has only just occurred, if at all...
Logged
aaron cassidy
****
Posts: 499



WWW
« Reply #93 on: 16:53:42, 17-04-2007 »

But, once again, no one else has taken on Ian's proposed task of contributing to the list, which, again, is more interesting to me than quibbling over opinions on individual works.  So, qt, your contribution?
Logged
quartertone
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 159



« Reply #94 on: 21:00:51, 17-04-2007 »

But, once again, no one else has taken on Ian's proposed task of contributing to the list, which, again, is more interesting to me than quibbling over opinions on individual works.  So, qt, your contribution?

What's the point of contributing lists if we're not going to discuss their content? After all, "opinions" are what this is all about in the first place. But I suppose we could bring a few more into play first.

The trouble is, I find it very hard to name important works since 2000, as a lot of the composers whose work has meant the most to me in the past (Lachenmann, Ferneyhough, Dillon, to name but three) have not quite delivered in the last few years, in my opinion. Perhaps I should make a small negative list, a list of important "let-downs", to illustrate my point.

Lachenmann: stagnation since the opera, broken only by the 3rd quartet. I completely disagree with the praise for Concertini, as it's really just the work of a seasoned craftsman showing his chops - Schönberg referred to his Theme and Variations op. 43 (I think), which has one version for full orchestra and one for wind orchestra as "one of those pieces one writes to enjoy one's own virtuosity". That's the impression Concertini made on me, and Helmut pretty much admits it himself.

Ferneyhough: his big, important piece, Shadowtime, disappointed me. The vocal writing has taken on a sort of camp flippance, and a lot of the instrumental writing seems interchangeable in a way that wasn't the case up to the mid-90s. I was listening to the Etcetera CD with La Chute d'Icare and some of the Carceri pieces the other week, and was struck by how superior those works (more the latter) are to his recent pieces. I popped over to Witten last year just to hear his new string quartet, and while it did intrigue me, it also left me unsatisfied. To my ears, his recent pieces display a bizarre combination of cruder gesturality and more academic structural working, leading to something that lacks the potency of 80s and 90s pieces. Listening to the Etudes Transcendantales, for example, every note, every nuance seemed meaningful. Listening to Flurries or The Doctrine of Similarity, however, I felt that he had generated a pile of material without really shaping it, without creating contexts. Perhaps that has something to do with the more significant function of the computer in his composing?

But to salvage some "positive" things from the last years, let me add Lachenmann's 3rd quartet, "Grido", to the list, something by Giorgio Netti - maybe actually that mammoth saxophone piece Richard finds so dreary, even though I find its length extremely problematic myself, or perhaps the less contentious string quartet. With Furrer, Fama certainly marks a stylistic turning point, and I'd agree that it's an important piece, though my feelings about it are somewhat mixed. How about Finnissy's History of Photography in Sound? Spahlinger's piano septet Farben der Frühe also comes to mind, though I should give that another few listens before I say any more about it.

EDIT: I forgot to mention Mark André, who's really been coming into his own this millenium. One fine recent piece is ...durch... for sax, piano and percussion.

EDIT 2: The late Mark Osborn (d. 2002) - I consider his orchestral piece Vinculum Substantiale (2000) a major achievement.
« Last Edit: 21:51:46, 17-04-2007 by quartertone » Logged
oliver sudden
Admin/Moderator Group
*****
Posts: 6411



« Reply #95 on: 21:48:07, 17-04-2007 »

That would make the birth 7 BC, though other historical parameters make that a little less certain. So I think the turn of the millenium has only just occurred, if at all...
Er, perhaps I'll let you fix that one up yourself? Wink

I think I may well be the only person apart from Marcus Weiss who thinks Giorgio Netti's monster soprano sax piece is actually really good. And I'm not saying that just so I can say I've played the sax he wrote it on. (And Richard was there!)
« Last Edit: 21:50:05, 17-04-2007 by oliver sudden » Logged
xyzzzz__
***
Posts: 201


« Reply #96 on: 21:55:59, 17-04-2007 »

Ha! I was enjoying that same Mark Andre piece a few days ago.

Apart from pieces by members of this board I'll add (as far as I know the following do not post here:-)):

James Erber - Strange Moments of Intimacy (completed in 2000? I think)
Clemens Gadenstatter - Comic Sense (2002/03)

Agreed on the Spahlinger and Netti - at least on )Place( (2001)

Maybe Tim Parkinson's Cello Piece.

Ones I'd like to hear: yes to the completed History of Photography in Sound, The Road by Rzewski, any recent Emsley or Dench (been enjoying his "Rushes" for four hands on the "hear and now" broadcast), will get onto FAMA soon (haven't done so far as I really couldn't get into his chamber music, which I explained back in the old place ages and ages ago), then Czernowin's chamber opera...
Logged
oliver sudden
Admin/Moderator Group
*****
Posts: 6411



« Reply #97 on: 22:44:11, 17-04-2007 »

Quote
James Erber - Strange Moments of Intimacy (completed in 2000? I think)
1999-2001. Really needs to be on C clarinet though I think. Wink
Logged
oliver sudden
Admin/Moderator Group
*****
Posts: 6411



« Reply #98 on: 22:51:55, 17-04-2007 »

EDIT 2: The late Mark Osborn (d. 2002) - I consider his orchestral piece Vinculum Substantiale (2000) a major achievement.
Mark was just beginning to hit his straps, I felt - a horrible loss.

As indeed was Fausto Romitelli. Probably a bit 'poppy' for some here but a wonderful sonic imagination and compositionally really tight; I played a few of his pieces last year and was gobsmacked every time how well-crafted and alive they were. And no, the irony of the second adjective isn't lost on me.

"This is how the wise usually console us blockheads, in such cases; 'He is no more, but what he has done lives and will live'…Away with such wisdom! When 'he' has not lived in vain, but has created - one must be a rascal to revel in the comforting thought that 'he' can create no more. No, one cannot and must not be comforted, there can be and must be no consolation - it is a rotten morality!" - Mussorgsky.

Sorry. Don't know where that came from. As you were.
Logged
quartertone
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 159



« Reply #99 on: 22:54:27, 17-04-2007 »

EDIT 2: The late Mark Osborn (d. 2002) - I consider his orchestral piece Vinculum Substantiale (2000) a major achievement.
Mark was just beginning to hit his straps, I felt - a horrible loss.

I don't think you've ever played a piece of his with Elision or Libra, have you?
Logged
oliver sudden
Admin/Moderator Group
*****
Posts: 6411



« Reply #100 on: 14:37:53, 18-04-2007 »

Haven't had the chance since the instrumentation didn't fit. It also didn't seem quite as urgent when Libra was regularly playing large ensemble concerts, for a reason I won't bother to point out.
Logged
quartertone
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 159



« Reply #101 on: 14:45:08, 18-04-2007 »

Quote
Haven't had the chance since the instrumentation didn't fit.

His last (unfinished) piece is for the Recherche line-up, so that would presumably fit.

Quote
It also didn't seem quite as urgent when Libra was regularly playing large ensemble concerts, for a reason I won't bother to point out.

Then why mention it at all, if you're not going to point it out?
Logged
oliver sudden
Admin/Moderator Group
*****
Posts: 6411



« Reply #102 on: 16:38:06, 18-04-2007 »

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

The last time Libra was regularly doing large concerts was before I left Australia. At that time Mark was still alive. The thought of programming an as yet unfinished piece of his because perhaps in a few months he wouldn't be there any more didn't cross my mind.
Logged
quartertone
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 159



« Reply #103 on: 16:42:52, 18-04-2007 »

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

The last time Libra was regularly doing large concerts was before I left Australia. At that time Mark was still alive. The thought of programming an as yet unfinished piece of his because perhaps in a few months he wouldn't be there any more didn't cross my mind.

How should I know when Libra was regularly doing large concerts? And you might have programmed, or indeed commissioned a piece of his because...er...it was worth playing? Or do people have to die first?

Obtuse my arse.
« Last Edit: 16:50:07, 18-04-2007 by quartertone » Logged
Evan Johnson
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 533



WWW
« Reply #104 on: 17:04:16, 18-04-2007 »

Obtuse my arse.

Yes, yes.  Obtuse all of our arses. 

I don't have anything particularly important to say here; just to chime in that I spent some time with Romitelli at Royaumont in 2003, which turned out to be I believe more or less his last public engagement before his death (in fact, he left the courses early because he fell ill with what turned out to be his final illness).  I didn't find his music personally compelling at the time, although I've meant to investigate more in the interim, but it was immediately clear that he was an intensely committed musician and an unbelievably warm and generous human being.  It's terrible when these things happen (and, as you can imagine, the idea of relatively sudden and premature death has been pretty much the mood in the air in the USA at the moment)...

Anyway.  Back to defining twenty-first century music.  I don't have so much to add, aside from a supporting vote for FAMA and Frey's second quartet in particular, as both extraordinarily good and somehow fundamentally 21st-century works.
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 5 6 [7] 8
  Print  
 
Jump to: