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Author Topic: Nobel Prize for Literature  (Read 536 times)
Reiner Torheit
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« on: 20:49:14, 11-10-2007 »

Doris Lessing has been announced as the winner of the Nobel Prize for Literature (I hear listening to "Nightwaves").

More detail on this as it appears in the Press.
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #1 on: 21:15:53, 11-10-2007 »

Here's the BBC News write-up of this story:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/7039100.stm
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
-  Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
Swan_Knight
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« Reply #2 on: 22:07:21, 11-10-2007 »

The only thing of hers I've ever read is her play 'Play With A Tiger', which never seems to be revived. 

Am I missing anything by not further exploring her oeuvre...or is she one of the large-ish group of lady writers whose works are inaccessible to the male mind?
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #3 on: 03:25:29, 12-10-2007 »

She's distanced herself from "ideological" feminism for a while,  and there's much good stuff amongst her recent oeuvre, I'd say? 

I first came to her work through The Making Of The Representative For Planet 8 (via its operatic manifestation), not really realising she hadn't always written sci-fi.  (I am not really a fan of sci-fi, so I was put off for a while).

The Cat Tales offer a completely different side of her  Wink

The bookies had all tipped Philip Roth for the Nobel...  I'm somewhat surprised he didn't get it, with no disrespect to the equally-worthy Lessing,  but this may be because I've read and appreciated more of his work than hers?
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
-  Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
Swan_Knight
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« Reply #4 on: 07:46:28, 12-10-2007 »

Interesting stuff, Reiner....

I'm afraid I do find feminism a huge obstacle in many authors.....it's a bit like reading to the accompaniment of a loud pneumatic drill outside the window.

As to the Nobel....just how much prestige does it really carry these days? I know it remains the biggest (money) literary gong in the world, but there's a nagging suspicion that it tends to go to authors who are 'worhy', rather than good.

I remember being very annoyed when they gave the bauble to William Golding. Studying 'Lord Of The Flies' at school must have blighted so many young lives.
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pim_derks
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« Reply #5 on: 09:54:37, 12-10-2007 »

I'm afraid I do find feminism a huge obstacle in many authors.....it's a bit like reading to the accompaniment of a loud pneumatic drill outside the window.

Grin

The Nobel Prize for Literature is a very strange thing. Think of the all the great writers who didn't receive it: Joseph Conrad, Henry James, Mark Twain, Graham Greene, Marcel Proust, Francis Ponge, August Strindberg, Jorge Luis Borges, Vladimir Nabokov, to name just a few. And speaking as a Dutchman: why is our language always being ignored by the Nobel Committee? Martinus Nijhoff, Willem Elsschot (from Flanders, but an excellent writer) and Willem Frederik Hermans wrote better literature than Sigrid Undset, Pearl Buck (!) or John Galsworthy. Undecided
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Swan_Knight
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« Reply #6 on: 10:42:00, 12-10-2007 »

I think you have a point there, p_m.  There seems to be no awareness of Dutch art (aside from painting) outside Holland at all: you need to shout a bit louder!  Wink

Though maybe it's a problem INSIDE Holland, too....I struggled, back in July, to find any CDs by Shocking Blue.  The shop assistants explained to me that because S.B. were an 'old band', there was little desire to keep their back catalogue before the public.  Which is a bit like being unable to buy anything by the Small Faces in the UK...

My favourite Nobel prizewinner was Knut Hamsun.
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Jonathan
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« Reply #7 on: 12:50:06, 12-10-2007 »

There was a discussion on Today on R4 about the merits of prizes - essentially comparing the Nobel Prize way of doing things (closed session, no shortlist) against other ways for literature (e.g. the Booker etc.)  Most interesting.
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #8 on: 14:41:37, 12-10-2007 »

I sometimes have to go to the city of Perm', in the Urals - where the Nobel brothers worked for a while (their dynamite factory still stands, in the centre of town).  A local legend says that the elder of the two brothers was deeply smitten by the charms of a young lady of the town ("Ural girls" are said to be the most beautiful in Russia), and he proposed to her - but she dumped him for a mathemetician.  Nobel was so grief-stricken he closed-down the Perm' factory and moved the entire business elsewhere.

Coincidence or not, the Nobel Science Prize has almost never been awarded to mathemeticians.

One hopes the Literature prize isn't influenced by such old grudges?  Wink

Surely Philip Roth isn't a mathemetician?
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
-  Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
pim_derks
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« Reply #9 on: 23:08:36, 12-10-2007 »

I think you have a point there, p_m.  There seems to be no awareness of Dutch art (aside from painting) outside Holland at all: you need to shout a bit louder!  Wink

Though maybe it's a problem INSIDE Holland, too....I struggled, back in July, to find any CDs by Shocking Blue.  The shop assistants explained to me that because S.B. were an 'old band', there was little desire to keep their back catalogue before the public.  Which is a bit like being unable to buy anything by the Small Faces in the UK...

My favourite Nobel prizewinner was Knut Hamsun.

Yes, we do need to shout a bit louder about our literature and music! Wink

I'm not surprised about the attitude of the shop assistant: people in this country are not very much interested in the past. I see on the internet that there are a few CDs on amazon.co.uk of Shocking Blue. The only song of this band that I have on disc is, not surprisingly, Venus (that Banarama version from the 1980s was a disgrace). Shocking Blue: reminds of all those other forgotten Dutch pop bands from the sixties: The Outsiders, Cuby and the Blizzards...

Knut Hamsun is a wonderful writer: Hunger, Pan, Mysteries and that fascinating book about his years after the war. I don't know the English title. The Dutch title is Langs Overwoekerde Paden.
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #10 on: 01:04:22, 13-10-2007 »

Quote
Yes, we do need to shout a bit louder about our literature and music!

I can't imagine the Dutch shouting, Pim - you are too good-natured for that Smiley

Do you think that it's maybe the themes about which Dutch authors write that don't appeal in English-speaking countries?  Sad  Perhaps a bit too difficult and too deep to be saleable elsewhere?
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
-  Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
pim_derks
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« Reply #11 on: 15:09:56, 13-10-2007 »

Quote
Yes, we do need to shout a bit louder about our literature and music!
Do you think that it's maybe the themes about which Dutch authors write that don't appeal in English-speaking countries?  Sad  Perhaps a bit too difficult and too deep to be saleable elsewhere?

Interesting point, Reiner. A lot of Dutch literature has been translated into German and some authors were successful in Germany, but not really in Britain or the United States.

But this is also the case with many authors from other countries. An interesting figure like the Austrian writer Heimito von Doderer never became famous in Britain, but he is known in France. The plays of Harold Pinter, Alan Ayckbourn and Noel Coward have all been performed in the Netherlands, but Terence Rattigan was never popular over here. The French author Paul Léautaud had a loyal audience in the Netherlands, but I don't believe many of his books were translated into English. I believe Graham Greene was a fan.
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pim_derks
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« Reply #12 on: 15:12:19, 13-10-2007 »

Do you think that it's maybe the themes about which Dutch authors write that don't appeal in English-speaking countries?  Sad  Perhaps a bit too difficult and too deep to be saleable elsewhere?

Interesting point, Reiner. A lot of Dutch literature has been translated into German and some authors were successful in Germany, but not really in Britain or the United States.

But this is also the case with many authors from other countries. An interesting figure like the Austrian writer Heimito von Doderer never became famous in Britain, but he is known in France. The plays of Harold Pinter, Alan Ayckbourn and Noel Coward have all been performed in the Netherlands, but Terence Rattigan was never popular over here. The French author Paul Léautaud had a loyal audience in the Netherlands, but I don't believe many of his books were translated into English. I believe Graham Greene was a fan.
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #13 on: 15:16:31, 13-10-2007 »

I notice this especially here in Russia, Pim.  Russians are avid readers, and I think they still lead Europe as book-buyers per capita. Yet almost no Russian contemporary literature is sold abroad (the exceptions being the "intellectual crime novels" of "Boris Akunin", and some rather odd translations of Viktor Pelevin's work).  However, we get Russian translations of many European novelists whose work I've never seen in English?  I have a feeling that British and American audiences are somewhat isolationist in their tastes in reading-matter Sad
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
-  Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
pim_derks
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« Reply #14 on: 15:45:40, 13-10-2007 »

I notice this especially here in Russia, Pim.  Russians are avid readers, and I think they still lead Europe as book-buyers per capita. Yet almost no Russian contemporary literature is sold abroad (the exceptions being the "intellectual crime novels" of "Boris Akunin", and some rather odd translations of Viktor Pelevin's work).  However, we get Russian translations of many European novelists whose work I've never seen in English?  I have a feeling that British and American audiences are somewhat isolationist in their tastes in reading-matter Sad

Good to read the Russians are still avid readers, Reiner. Smiley

I have to say that the Dutch reader has also become a bit isolationist during the last decades. Second-rate American novels are being translated into Dutch immediately, but I don't see that many translated books from other European countries, including Germany.

There was an item about translated literature on Night Waves not so long ago. Someone said that only lesser know American authors were seen as "foreign" by the British reader. Undecided

A few novels of Boris Akunin have been translated into Dutch but I don't believe they were very successful. I read somewhere that years ago, Paul Verhoeven wanted to make a film version of "The Winter Queen". According to the Internet Movie Data Base, it is still "in production" but I think Paul couldn't find the money for this adventure. Cheesy
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