|
aaron cassidy
|
 |
« Reply #30 on: 22:27:34, 03-10-2007 » |
|
(it's all a matter of taste of course but I generally can't stand either Levine or Battle with just a very few exceptions and certainly I've heard nothing to incline me to the notion that their Brahms might be the sort of Brahms that would turn my crank. De gustibus and all that.)
I see. If Sudden recommends a disc, everyone dashes off to buy it immediately; if .... Oh, nevermind.  |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Evan Johnson
|
|
« Reply #32 on: 22:41:20, 03-10-2007 » |
|
(it's all a matter of taste of course but I generally can't stand either Levine or Battle with just a very few exceptions and certainly I've heard nothing to incline me to the notion that their Brahms might be the sort of Brahms that would turn my crank. De gustibus and all that.)
I see. If Sudden recommends a disc, everyone dashes off to buy it immediately; if .... Oh, nevermind. Yes, well, you don't like Graupner, so you are not to be trusted any further than you can be thrown. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Ian Pace
|
|
« Reply #33 on: 22:41:54, 03-10-2007 » |
|
Another favourite moment, from the sixth movement:   Totally gorgeous. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
|
|
|
|
oliver sudden
|
|
« Reply #34 on: 22:45:15, 03-10-2007 » |
|
(it's all a matter of taste of course but I generally can't stand either Levine or Battle with just a very few exceptions and certainly I've heard nothing to incline me to the notion that their Brahms might be the sort of Brahms that would turn my crank. De gustibus and all that.)
I see. If Sudden recommends a disc, everyone dashes off to buy it immediately; if .... Oh, nevermind. Yes, well, you don't like Graupner, so you are not to be trusted any further than you can be thrown.
GENTLEMEN! PLEASE! A little decorum if you don't mind!  |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Ian Pace
|
|
« Reply #35 on: 22:50:28, 03-10-2007 » |
|
(it's all a matter of taste of course but I generally can't stand either Levine or Battle with just a very few exceptions and certainly I've heard nothing to incline me to the notion that their Brahms might be the sort of Brahms that would turn my crank. De gustibus and all that.)
I see. If Sudden recommends a disc, everyone dashes off to buy it immediately; if .... Oh, nevermind. Key to recommending discs on here -make sure whatever you do that they all render the music in question in the manner of the Neue Sachlichkeit, then you can't go wrong   |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
|
|
|
|
Ian Pace
|
|
« Reply #36 on: 23:03:00, 03-10-2007 » |
|
I LOVE NUDE DRS?
NILE VD DOUSER?
(time for more coat-getting)
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
|
|
|
|
ahinton
|
|
« Reply #37 on: 23:15:28, 03-10-2007 » |
|
Another favourite moment, from the sixth movement: Totally gorgeous. That's a rather large "moment", Ian - but - well, yes; what can one realistically say but YES?! Best, Alistair |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
ahinton
|
|
« Reply #38 on: 23:18:00, 03-10-2007 » |
|
I LOVE NUDE DRS?
NILE VD DOUSER?
(time for more coat-getting)
There really ought to be a lost property office on this forum; without one, I just cannot think where enough people will find themselves able to source enough coats... Best, Alistair |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
ahinton
|
|
« Reply #39 on: 23:22:31, 03-10-2007 » |
|
I LOVE NUDE DRS?
NILE VD DOUSER?
(time for more coat-getting)
"Sure did novel" (as the authoress said to the bishop)... Best, Alistair |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Ian Pace
|
|
« Reply #40 on: 23:45:45, 03-10-2007 » |
|
Part of it was used to good effect as the signature tune to a BBC series about the rise and fall of the Nazis (hardly a day goes by without a programme on that subject on British television). I can't remember the name of it but it's the one that showed a picture of public support for the regime and which closed in on a small boy waving a flag.
Particularly inappropriate, as well, as there is little evidence of any particular Nazi enthusiasm for Brahms (as opposed to Beethoven, Bruckner, Wagner). For a truly great film exploring the links between music and Nazi Germany, in particular Wagner, see this (at the bottom there is a link to where you can watch the film for free online - takes a while to upload, but well worth it). Apologies if I've mentioned this before (can't remember), but I can't recommend it enough. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
|
|
|
|
Ian Pace
|
|
« Reply #41 on: 23:54:37, 03-10-2007 » |
|
Of one thing I'm really adamant, by the way - that Brahms intended the two-note slurs that permeate the whole of the last movement to be played separated (with tiny gaps between them, in the manner of Haydn and earlier). I won't bang on about the reasons for this (there is plentiful evidence of Brahms's preferences in this respect - I think I've mentioned a bit in one of the Brahms threads, there will be a whole chapter on this in my book). It transforms the whole movement, and makes it 'lift' in a new way. The conductor with whom I did this work recently (in the version with two pianos and timps instead of orchestra) described this movement as a 'Runway to Heaven' (Landesbahn nach Himmel, or zum Himmel, I think?).
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
|
|
|
|
ahinton
|
|
« Reply #42 on: 00:00:12, 04-10-2007 » |
|
The conductor with whom I did this work recently (in the version with two pianos and timps instead of orchestra) described this movement as a 'Runway to Heaven' (Landesbahn nach Himmel, or zum Himmel, I think?).
Well, if that's what it really is, I won't mind being on the plane that taxis along it one day (OK, I know that no one will permit me admittance to a seat thereon on the basis that I'd be trying to head for the opposite destination from that shown on my ticket, but it's a nice thought...) Best, Alistair |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
MrYorick
Guest
|
|
« Reply #43 on: 23:54:12, 07-10-2007 » |
|
there are practically no weak spots (where are they?)
I was the one who mentioned the possibility of weak spots. I checked my score to see which spots I found rather weak, but as I went through it page by page I realised - a bit to my own surprise - I quite like every section of it (maybe the only exception is the fugue at the end of the third movement ( "Der gerechten Seelen sind in Gottes hand...") - that's just one great blur to me, except for the soprano- and tenor vocalises, which are terribly exciting). So, I have nothing to complain about. I realise quite soberly that every bit of it is beautiful and strong (our conductor is very good at pointing out what is especially beautiful about every bit; and studying my part and singing it in rehearsal reveals a lot of beautiful, subtle things that I do not experience when I listen to a recording). It's just that I can't really connect emotionally with the music - it all remains quite abstract for me. But that's just a matter of individual temperament and unavoidable aesthetic preferences - and isn't really debatable and relevant to this discussion. Just thought I'd mention. It's extremely rich in every sense, and deeply compositionally adventurous in ways that go far beyond the sacred subject matter (and there's plenty of evidence that Brahms conceived it as much in terms of his relationship to Clara, and his response to the death of his mother, as anything else).
I wonder about this. In what way does it go beyond the sacred subject matter? How can you conceive the piece in terms of his relationship to Clara Schumann or his mother (apart from the fifth movement)? In my eyes the heart of the piece is still thoroughly religious. It's true that there's a lot of room for humanity, with all its existential anxiety - which isn't religious per se-, but there's always the counterpart of salvation and redemption (eg. the special significance of the word 'aber' in the Requiem). And redemption is always guaranteed by God. Moreover, in the fugues God is even praised without reference to his role as the redeemer of earthly suffering. So, how can this piece be interpreted as a-not-necessarily-religious work? Thank you, Aaron, for the recording recommendation. I realise this post hasn't got much sense anymore since Ian Pace, Chafing Dish and others have left the boards, but I'd thought I'd post it anyway, to show how this will become a poorer place for straight musical discussion, when a lot of interesting members dissappear because of immoderate moderation. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Reiner Torheit
|
|
« Reply #44 on: 20:07:31, 19-11-2007 » |
|
A spot of fresh air might be needed in this thread? And I definitely got some when I trekked kilometers on foot through the Parisian strikes to the Salle Pleyel to hear this yesterday: http://www.francebillet.com/place-spectacle/manifestation/Musique-classique-BRAHMS------GARDINER-III-PL18.htmJEG was clearly out to illustrate the (alleged) links between Brahms, Schutz and Bach, prior to a high-adrenalin performance of Ein Deutsches Requiem in the second half of the concert. The Monteverdi Choir did full justice to both the baroque music and Brahms likewise, but I'm afraid I was no more convinced of these alleged "links" after hearing them in such proximity? Yes, both halves of the concert had some elements of choral polyphony, and with some purposeful rooting-around some of the Biblical texts which occur in the REQUIEM could be found set (entirely, errr, differently) by Bach, Ahle & Co. For me the most remarkable aspect of the concert was to hear the Revolutionary & Romantic Orch, who perform entirely on C19th period instruments in a HIP kind of way. Yup, entirely crooked, valveless horns (much work recrooking them could be seen going on throughout the Requiem), and C19th woodwind and brass. Strings on all-gut instruments, without vibrato. However, the playing under Gardiner is impassioned and expressive (none of that eunuch-style playing heard in some other HIP contexts...) and there was some outstanding solo playing from Anneke Scott (Fr Horn), Michael Niesemann (Oboe), and David Watkin (cello). The most important thing of all was that after the first few minutes it was no longer an "issue" that they were playing on the older instruments, and the super clarity of texture and timbre added a fresh sheen to the work. As I've said earlier in this thread, the Requiem isn't a piece I greatly admire, but this performance succeeded (for me) in eliminating the grim, over-wrought and unwanted legacy of "Choral Society" performances that stick in the mind like an exceptionally nasty school dinner, and found a diaphonous texture to the piece that I'd not really been aware of when hearing it previously. I hope this performance might make its way to disk? I may even want to buy it I'm afraid I didn't like Camilla Tilling as the soprano soloist - she has a fast and continuous vibrato in her voice which I found unsettling and unattractive, and I found her a bit lightweight. I didn't see what had recommended her for this work? There are rather more suitable sopranos around for this piece (Suzanna Cornelius, to mention just one contemporary native German singer). Matthew Brook found all the right resources for the Last Trumpet, though  |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
- Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
|
|
|
|
