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Author Topic: Brahms the Allusionist  (Read 1931 times)
richard barrett
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« Reply #15 on: 20:51:29, 22-01-2008 »


"Doc, I can't stop singing 'The green green grass of home.'"
"That sounds like Tom Jones syndrome. "
"Is it common? "
"It's not unusual."
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George Garnett
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« Reply #16 on: 20:57:37, 22-01-2008 »



So I said to the Gym instructor "Can you teach me to do the splits?".

He said "How flexible are you?"

I said "I can't make Tuesdays."

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increpatio
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« Reply #17 on: 21:01:59, 22-01-2008 »


Q: Is one permitted to ride in an airplane on the Sabbath?
A: Yes, as long as your seat belt remains fastened. In this case, it is considered that you are not riding, you are wearing the plane.
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #18 on: 21:03:34, 22-01-2008 »

Anyone wanting a thread actually called Brahms the Illusionist need but ask. Smiley
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richard barrett
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« Reply #19 on: 21:06:09, 22-01-2008 »

There's something not quite right about Increpatio's last post.
Anyone wanting a thread actually called Brahms the Illusionist need but ask. Smiley
We are are not we making allusions to Brahms?

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increpatio
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« Reply #20 on: 21:07:41, 22-01-2008 »

There's something not quite right about Increpatio's last post.

Yes, I feel I must rather be missing something...
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richard barrett
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« Reply #21 on: 21:13:26, 22-01-2008 »

There's something not quite right about Increpatio's last post.

Yes, I feel I must rather be missing something...

Could be.
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George Garnett
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« Reply #22 on: 21:19:33, 22-01-2008 »

Anyone wanting a thread actually called Brahms the Illusionist need but ask. Smiley

We could. But then there wouldn't be the thrill of the forbidden as we scrambled over the orchard wall in our short trousers to avoid being caught by the Mods.
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opilec
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« Reply #23 on: 21:22:32, 22-01-2008 »

the thrill of the forbidden as we scrambled over the orchard wall in our short trousers to avoid being caught by the Mods.

Ouch! Sounds painful ...  Undecided
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #24 on: 21:25:50, 22-01-2008 »

Is that an orchard wall in your short trousers or are you just pleased to see me?
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increpatio
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« Reply #25 on: 21:28:22, 22-01-2008 »

There's something not quite right about Increpatio's last post.

Yes, I feel I must rather be missing something...

Could be.

Ah right, so that would make this fellow Tommy Brahms then?

?
A symphony is no joke.
« Last Edit: 21:36:37, 22-01-2008 by increpatio » Logged

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martle
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« Reply #26 on: 21:59:10, 22-01-2008 »

I'm dying here!   Cheesy Cheesy

A man takes his Rottweiler to the vet. 'My dog's cross-eyed, is there anything you can do for him? 'Well, 'says the vet, 'let's have a look at him' so he picks the dog up and examines his eyes, then checks his teeth.
Finally, he says ' I'm going to have to put him down. 'What? Because he's cross-eyed?' No, because he's really heavy'

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Green. Always green.
Reiner Torheit
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WWW
« Reply #27 on: 08:48:22, 23-01-2008 »

I went to buy some camouflage trousers the other day, but I couldn't find any.

I went to the Chemist's and asked "Have you got anything for wind?".  So they gave me a kite.
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
-  Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
George Garnett
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« Reply #28 on: 11:51:48, 23-01-2008 »

The article is utter cack for the most part, however.

Agreed.

I'm having to pinch myself here. Maybe I just dreamt it ...

 Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy There's nothing like dissing a third party for bringing people together. It brings a tear to the eye. Grin



                                          


This man goes into the doctor's. "Doc, I've got a cricket ball stuck up my backside."

"How's that?"

"Don't you start."
« Last Edit: 11:58:28, 23-01-2008 by George Garnett » Logged
Ian Pace
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« Reply #29 on: 12:31:52, 23-01-2008 »

As far as a "return to classicism", this rather assumes that it existed in the first place?  Perhaps she is on about that red herring of Brahms's alleged indebtedness to Schutz, Bach and others... which is not "classical" of course, but represents a solid and respectable continuum of work, at least.  
"Return to classicism" certainly is a gross over-simplification of what Brahms was up to. He was by no means the first composer to draw upon earlier models (in a certain sense, all composers do that), but in terms of degree, his engagement with materials, motifs, technical procedures, from early music (of which he was one of the first composers to really study in intense detail) was quite unprecedented.

Quote
But "reactionary" he most certainly was, surely?  The hissy fits about Wagner's music, the conscious re-use of chorale-motifs to hammer-home a correctness of German sensibility rooted in "old traditions" he abrogated willy-nilly?  This stubborn streak of undiluted nationalism in his music is what I find least digestible, and most suspect about Brahms.
Well, a handful of works such as Triumphlied (which is hardly typical) apart, I don't really see what makes Brahms, who also drew heavily upon French and Italian musical traditions (his keyboard writing alludes frequently to Couperin, for example), such a nationalist, certainly not in comparison with Wagner, who was so deeply immersed in Teutonic mythology and the like. He did sign the manifesto against the music of Wagner and Liszt, but that was in 1860, when Brahms was only 27; afterwards he took little part in the 'War of the Romantics', which was primarily fought by Hanslick (who of course was Jewish, so hardly an echt-Teuton) and others (though in private correspondence Brahms did rant from time to time about Bruckner). And the other side were hardly any more dignified in their behaviour and polemics.

Which works do you particularly have in mind in terms of the use of chorale-motifs? What is much more common in Brahms's work is the use of motifs and themes derived from German folk song (but also Zigeunermelodien and other folk sources).
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
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