Stevo
Posts: 56
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« Reply #15 on: 11:59:48, 21-02-2007 » |
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For me Schubert's 10th in the form of Berio's "Rendering" is a much more affecting piece of music, more Schubertian in a strange posthumous sort of way, than Newbould's conjectural completion. I agree, but then "Rendering" is a horse of a different colour; one great artist's comment on another. A new artwork, rather than a resuscitated old one. I think my doubts spring from the fact that so many of these 'completers' have very little of their own output of note (Cooke being an exception), which does throw into question the level of inspiration needed when working with others' pieces.
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tonybob
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« Reply #16 on: 12:04:07, 21-02-2007 » |
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I'd like to hear a completion that takes the bruckner away from it - ala Rendering. Knussen? Matthews? Henze? edit: Just, erm.....obtained?... a live Bruckner 8 with the Munich Phil and Thielemann which, on first listen, seems to be very impressive. No, Opilec. really.edit2: Just listened to a live performance of Bruckner 8 on R3 with the Concertgebouw under Mehta. anyone else catch it? what an orchestra!. why aren't you at school?/OpilecTotal listened-to count today is: 2 x Bruckner 8 (mehta and thielemann) 1 x Bruckner 6 (haitink) Do i need to get out more?
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« Last Edit: 15:50:34, 21-02-2007 by tonybob »
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sososo s & i.
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #17 on: 00:20:29, 22-02-2007 » |
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Maybe there's a case for using Bruckner's 9th symphony sketches in that sort of way, I mean to treat its incompleteness as an advantage rather than a disadvantage. Playing just the movements he finished, you mean?... Yes, I can see how that could be very effective indeed.
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harrumph
Posts: 76
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« Reply #18 on: 13:31:00, 22-02-2007 » |
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...the Carragan completion sounds threadbare at times, but the bones of it are pretty much Bruckner's creation - his first thoughts, at least (the underlying structure is apparently virtually complete in sketch form)...
...without having the source material and the completion in study score form, it's difficult to be sure what has been added...
From the Web site of the Viennese publishers of the critical editions of Bruckner (my emphasis): "The task of revising and completing Orel's 'Sketches and drafts for the Ninth' of 1934 was one which [Leopold] Nowak was putting off until after the conclusion of the Complete Edition. Only a few days before he passed away, Nowak entrusted the Australian Bruckner scholar John A. Phillips with the task of reviewing and preparing this extensive material for publication. Phillips's reconstruction of the Finale fragment contained no additions whatsoever and was accompanied by a detailed commentary. Merely the presentation of the extant score, short score, and movement sequence pages made it a sensation. It shows a remarkably bold movement at an advanced stage of composition and in part with full instrumentation, but certain of the paginated manuscript sheets are no longer extant and the composition becomes noticeably thinner towards the end of the recapitulation."Unfortunately, my efforts to obtain the score of the Carragan completion have proved fruitless
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tonybob
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« Reply #19 on: 16:54:04, 22-02-2007 » |
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Australian Bruckner scholar
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sososo s & i.
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Rob_G
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« Reply #20 on: 18:53:22, 22-02-2007 » |
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Boulez No 8 on now, 1st movement is glorious
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tonybob
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« Reply #21 on: 16:08:09, 23-02-2007 » |
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Just finished listening to Asahina's Bruckner 9. There is a lot to commend the whole set under Asahina, especially the orchestral playing which can be, at times, splendidly rough. (I don't think this is a problem in Bruckner). Well worth checking out, if they ever get an English release.
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sososo s & i.
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #22 on: 21:59:42, 23-02-2007 » |
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Australian Bruckner scholar Yes, that sent my eyebrows for a spin too!
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thompson1780
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« Reply #23 on: 00:25:02, 24-02-2007 » |
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I'm just listening to Bruckner's String Quintet - Prazak Quartet with Talich (1996). Not a great work, but I like it. Also have it on hyperion with the Raphael Ensemble from 1993 - not quite as clear playing.
Anyone got any views about Bruckner's non-Symphonic works?
Tomo
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Made by Thompson & son, at the Violin & c. the West end of St. Paul's Churchyard, LONDON
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lovedaydewfall
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« Reply #24 on: 15:44:54, 24-02-2007 » |
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For a long time Bruckner was my favourite composer. In a sense he still is, but I don't listen much to him, or Mahler these days. No-one seems to have made the point that Bruckner was in absolute awe of Wagner, and we are supposed to see this in the scoring of his symphonies. Also, in his use of the so-called "Wagner-Tubas" in the last three syms. He attended some Wagner opera performances, and apparently had no idea what the stories were about, but was overcome by the music. He visited the great hero (Wagner) taking along the score of his 3rd Symphony, which he wanted to dedicate to Wagner (he also took one or two others I believe, so that Wagner would have a choice of dedication). He chose the 3rd, and because it started with a trumpet theme took to referring to Bruckner as "The Trumpet". Characteristically, when Bruckner got home again he forgot which Symphony Wagner had chosen, and had to write to him to ask. There is a copy of Wagner's reply in the Town Hall Archives in Vienna, and I somewhere have a photostat of it. Mahler was really of the following generation, ie young when Bruckner was old. There are numerous stories about Bruckner's naivete, such as about him trying to court a young lady when he was quite elderly, giving her a prayer-book as a present, and having it thrown downstairs at him in disgust. Another thing is that he continued studying until about 40 years old, and then started composing in earnest. Some of his early stuff is completely unremarkable: there is a piano sonata that just sounds like Czerny or Clementi, or one of those uninspired keyboard hacks of the Beethoven era (Please nobody write in to say that Czerny and Clementi were not uninspired!) Sometimes the 9th Sym. is played with his Te Deum as a final movement, but that does not work for me. I am happy for it to be a three movement work, although the various completions that I have heard are good enough. Bruckner was also very neurotic - constatntly counting railings, cracks in the pavement etc. But the sheer profundity of his best music is unequalled, i would maintain i.e. the 8th and 9th symphonies, especially). I think they are even better than Beethoven.
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tonybob
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« Reply #25 on: 17:19:03, 24-02-2007 » |
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Come on, guys ... After all, there is a Vienna Cricket Club!
i knew they were a civilised bunch! i've got all the asahina/bruckners now, btw, Opilec. And rehearsals. In Japanese!!!
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« Last Edit: 17:24:46, 24-02-2007 by tonybob »
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sososo s & i.
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Jonathan
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« Reply #26 on: 17:54:28, 24-02-2007 » |
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I've just bought this afternoon, a recording on Arte-Nova of Bruckner 0 - this now completes my set of all the symphonies on CD. I'm going to play them in sequence in the car on the way to work over the next few weeks as I am relaly familiar with nos.3, 7 and 9 and less familiar with the others.
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Best regards, Jonathan ********************************************* "as the housefly of destiny collides with the windscreen of fate..."
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #27 on: 19:51:34, 24-02-2007 » |
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He attended some Wagner opera performances, and apparently had no idea what the stories were about, What's the famous quote - "why did they burn the woman at the end?" Sounds like it must have been Walküre. Of course Bruckner is undeniably better at being Bruckner than Beethoven is - but fortunately we don't have to choose between them, since Bruckner without Beethoven is unimaginable. Especially Bruckner without the first movement of Beethoven 9 - the tremolo at the beginning and the grinding bass line at the end. Or indeed the slow movement of Beethoven 9 with the alternating thematic groups. And all that sort of thing...
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #28 on: 21:24:02, 25-02-2007 » |
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Is anyone here a fan of the period-instruments Bruckner that's come out so far? Herreweghe has been getting some very fine reviews but I must say his 7th did not a great deal for me... Anyone heard any of his more recent recordings or concerts? Or for that matter some of the Mahler that's gone with it?
(I must confess anyone who does Des Knaben Wunderhorn on period instruments but then transposes the songs has lost me from the start!)
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tonybob
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« Reply #29 on: 19:32:53, 27-02-2007 » |
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Herreweghe's 4th didn't do much for me, but i thought the 7th was fab.
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sososo s & i.
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