harrumph
Posts: 76
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« Reply #30 on: 11:58:02, 28-02-2007 » |
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I've heard Norrington's (very swift) Symphony no. 3 (1873 version); while I find Norrington's Beethoven symphony performances a breath of fresh air, I wasn't convinced that Bruckner benefitted from the same treatment. Flighty Norrington takes 57:25; funereal Tintner needs 77:43! The middling Eliahu Inbal takes 65:12, and is much more my cup of tea than the extremists. Excessively fast performances lose some of the music's weight and power; excessively slow ones dissipate the harmonic tensions which are equally essential.
Much of the appeal of Bruckner's music for me lies in the splendour of it all... how much louder are today's brass instruments than those of the 1870s? Is there really a balance problem that needs redressing? In any case, I hear most of my Bruckner from recordings, Bruckner in concerts being rarer than I would like; and on CD the responsibility for making everything audible lies as much with the engineers as with the musicians.
Even if the magnificent sound I heard when I first grew to love this music is not the sound that Bruckner heard, it's the sound I like...
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« Last Edit: 11:11:18, 02-03-2007 by harrumph »
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Lord Byron
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« Reply #31 on: 12:41:17, 28-02-2007 » |
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I think I heard on 3 something about a first performance of one of Bruckners symphonies and it was not well received though Mahler liked it very much and was there to comfort Bruckner. Also,,,, mahler said, according to wikipedia "Bruckner: half simpleton, half God." -Gustav Mahler http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anton_Bruckneroo, i can not resist the pic link  |
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lovedaydewfall
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« Reply #32 on: 20:20:14, 28-02-2007 » |
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I've just bought this afternoon, a recording on Arte-Nova of Bruckner 0 - this now completes my set of all the symphonies on CD. I'm going to play them in sequence in the car on the way to work over the next few weeks as I am relaly familiar with nos.3, 7 and 9 and less familiar with the others.
Have you got the un-numbered "Student-Symphony" in F minor? I don't know if it exists on CD. |
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Jonathan
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« Reply #33 on: 20:57:33, 28-02-2007 » |
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Hi lovedaydewfall
Yes, I have - I was listening to it today. It's not terribly distinctive, except possibly for the scherzo and and finale. The rest sounds a strange mixture of Wagner and Berlioz but without the heavy brass he used in later symphonies.
Still, it's still better than any symphony that I'll ever write!
The recording I have is on Naxos with Georg Tintner, coupled with the finale of the 4th (much more distinctive) in a different version to the one usually found attached to the rest of the symphony.
Happy hunting!
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Best regards,
Jonathan
*********************************************
"as the housefly of destiny collides with the windscreen of fate..."
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thompson1780
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« Reply #34 on: 23:36:33, 09-03-2007 » |
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I enjoyed the bit of the Bruckner 4 with Abbado and the Lucerne orchestra I heard before In Tune today.
Tommo
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Made by Thompson & son, at the Violin & c. the West end of St. Paul's Churchyard, LONDON
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Il Grande Inquisitor
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« Reply #35 on: 21:22:31, 14-03-2007 » |
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IIRC, Bruckner's 8th used to be known (though not that widely) as "the Apocalyptic".
I never know this, but have just noticed on Amazon's listings a number of nicknames I never knew before: Symphony No. 0, in D minor ("Die Nullte") Symphony No. 1 in C minor ("The Saucy Maid") Symphony No. 2 in C minor ("Symphony of Pauses") Symphony No. 3 in D minor ("Wagner") Symphony No. 4 in E flat ("Romantic") Symphony No. 5 in B flat ("Tragic"; "Church of Faith"; "Pizzicato") Symphony No. 6 in A major ("Philosophic") Symphony No. 7 in E major ("Lyric") Symphony No. 8 in C minor ("Apocalyptic"; "The German Michel") Symphony No. 9 in D minor ("Unfinished") The Pizzicato? The Saucy Maid?!  I know of the 'Romantic' and that the 3rd is often given Wagner's name as a subtitle/tribute, but the others? Have these names ever been in general use? Where? |
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Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency
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Jonathan
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« Reply #36 on: 22:09:26, 14-03-2007 » |
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No, Il Grande Inquisitor I hadn't know most of those either!
Oddly, The Saucy Maid came up when I played Bruckner 1 through I-tunes and I wondered about that as I'd never seen it anywhere else before.
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Best regards,
Jonathan
*********************************************
"as the housefly of destiny collides with the windscreen of fate..."
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lovedaydewfall
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« Reply #37 on: 21:35:34, 15-03-2007 » |
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IIRC, Bruckner's 8th used to be known (though not that widely) as "the Apocalyptic".
I never know this, but have just noticed on Amazon's listings a number of nicknames I never knew before: Symphony No. 0, in D minor ("Die Nullte") Symphony No. 1 in C minor ("The Saucy Maid") Symphony No. 2 in C minor ("Symphony of Pauses") Symphony No. 3 in D minor ("Wagner") Symphony No. 4 in E flat ("Romantic") Symphony No. 5 in B flat ("Tragic"; "Church of Faith"; "Pizzicato") Symphony No. 6 in A major ("Philosophic") Symphony No. 7 in E major ("Lyric") Symphony No. 8 in C minor ("Apocalyptic"; "The German Michel") Symphony No. 9 in D minor ("Unfinished") The Pizzicato? The Saucy Maid?! I know of the 'Romantic' and that the 3rd is often given Wagner's name as a subtitle/tribute, but the others? Have these names ever been in general use? Where? Most of those nicknames are fanciful and ludicrous, and I have never heard of them before, except for "Romantic" which is regularly used, "Wagner" sometimes for No. 3 (because Wagner chose it for dedication), and one you haven't listed, for No. 1 which is sometimes called "The Linz" (or is that just for one particular version of it?) - I'm not sure. I can't imagine where Amazon got those other silly names from. Oh, and "Die Nullte" is used as well but it's only German for "zero", which is the number of the work. |
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tonybob
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« Reply #38 on: 23:31:48, 15-03-2007 » |
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I never know this, but have just noticed on Amazon's listings a number of nicknames I never knew before:
Symphony No. 0, in D minor ("Die Nullte") it's german for 'naught'
Symphony No. 1 in C minor ("The Saucy Maid") bruckner referred to it thusly in a letter once, maybe because the last mvt starts FF - his only loud starting outer movement.
Symphony No. 2 in C minor ("Symphony of Pauses")
Symphony No. 3 in D minor ("Wagner") dedicated to wagner
Symphony No. 4 in E flat ("Romantic")
Symphony No. 5 in B flat ("Tragic"; "Church of Faith"; "Pizzicato") pizz. because it's his only first mvt that doesnt begin with tremalando strings, but pizz strings, never heard of the others...
Symphony No. 6 in A major ("Philosophic") what a load of old bollocks!
Symphony No. 7 in E major ("Lyric") well, it is....
Symphony No. 8 in C minor ("Apocalyptic"; "The German Michel")
Symphony No. 9 in D minor ("Unfinished")
don't forget the student symphony and symphony no. 00 |
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sososo s & i.
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tonybob
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« Reply #39 on: 07:52:21, 16-03-2007 » |
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...and yes, I know there are no bells in it ...
 don't get it... |
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sososo s & i.
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Jonathan
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« Reply #40 on: 18:44:02, 16-03-2007 » |
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Tony, I believe the Study Symphony is no.00 - just to confuse matters!
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Best regards,
Jonathan
*********************************************
"as the housefly of destiny collides with the windscreen of fate..."
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Tony Watson
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« Reply #41 on: 19:42:20, 16-03-2007 » |
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The numberings 00 and 0 are a bit silly, aren't they? Is 00 supposed to be smaller than 0? We should either pretend they don't exist (unlikely now that we like to go for completeness), or give them special names (such as Study Symphony), or renumber the whole lot (as happened with the Dvorak symphonies when it was thought that the early ones weren't worth considering along with the rest) so that Bruckner's 9th will become his 11th.
An even greater nonsense is the occasional practice of numbering Mozart's early efforts 42 and above. But could we really renumber 40 and 41? It shows how arbitrary the whole thing can be and yet we know how superstitious Mahler was about writing 9 symphonies.
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roslynmuse
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« Reply #42 on: 21:28:10, 16-03-2007 » |
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How about -1 and -2, or as Stockhausen advocated - for his own works!, 1/2 and 1/3 (the so-far-undiscovered work which is so far destined to be labelled 000 would then be 1/4!)
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tonybob
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« Reply #43 on: 22:29:53, 19-03-2007 » |
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How about -1 and -2, or as Stockhausen advocated - for his own works!, 1/2 and 1/3 (the so-far-undiscovered work which is so far destined to be labelled 000 would then be 1/4!)
of course, what you have to remember about Stockhausen is that he's an idiot. |
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sososo s & i.
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roslynmuse
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« Reply #44 on: 22:42:28, 19-03-2007 » |
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Well, at least his system would give the symphonies numbering a positive value...  |
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