But this sometimes happens at the Hall of the Gibichungs. I think producers like to present Siegfried as the innocent abroad. Someone who's come a long way from the primitive dwelling he shared with Mime and so is easily duped. But it always jars with me. The cocktail bars and DJs don't sit easily with dragons' caves.

Entirely agree, Richard, that the ideal circumstances for watching Wagner's operas (or, ehem, any other operas) are in an opera-house.  The absence of external distractions,  the visual focus on the stage area with everything else in blackness, and (hopefully) the ideal acoustics of the building all lend themselves to the best possible enjoyment (are we allowed to say that still?) of the piece in question.

Having said that, many people in the thread are discussing a Wagner production that was on the telly, so DVD didn't seem entirely off the point

I can see a point behind wanting to listen to the music only and "imagine how it ought to look" - this, of course, is the purpose behind all radio drama, and there is no limit to the budget of productions which occur in your own mind :-)   I also prefer to come to works through the music first,  to avoid having visual ideas forced upon me which I might have difficulty in entirely erasing later (god forbid that one should reach the same solution as another producer...).   Having said that, there is nothing to prevent you buying the DVD, and just turning the screen off and listening to the music on its own:)   I honestly believe that the future for cds of opera is not going to be a long one - no-one will want to buy "only half the product", and quite rightly so too.  Not all of us have an opera-house on our doorstep, and when a single ticket costs more than buying the box set or dvd,  it's a hard argument to make that we should always see opera "live". (I am fortunate in living in a city which has six full-time opera-houses, and where the tickets - except for the Bolshoi - averagely don't cost more than 10-15 quid for revivals, 20 for new shows).   I don't have "home cinema", but I'd imagine that if you do then the results would be significantly improved over watching normal tv.  Nor, of course, is Wagner regularly staged everywhere, even in the most advanced opera-theatres...  for reasons of taste, scale, availability of suitable performers, sheer economics, or sometimes because of external political bans on his works.  (Not only in Israel - Moscow hadn't staged any Wagner since WW2, until the FLYING DUTCHMAN staged in 2004, joint-produced with Hamburg.  The only touring Wagner to arrive was in 2003 when Gergiev brought his catastrophically-poor WALKURE, which was so badly received that he fired the Producer backstage after the first night. He then staged the entire RING himself - with designer Georgy Tsypin -  and showed it in 2005...  frankly it was worse still, but no-one can fire Gergiev from his own show. I've never seen a "Ride Of The Valkyries" in which they stood entirely motionless in a straight line along the edge of the pit, nor a Wotan who appeared to wander off for a packet of cigs during the Abschied.).

As far as "silly productions" are concerned...  I am in the middle of doing "Il Combattimento di Tancredi e Clorinda" at the moment, and my defence against any criticism  ("but it's a madrigal, how can you justify staging it?") is anecdotal information about the original performance which has come down to us... including the problems caused by the horses (!) which appeared in the staging of the work :-)  ("Ha, now find them in the stage-directions of the original work, Mr Bouzov of the Moscow Komersant newspaper!").  Regrettably, sanitary regulations prevent an entirely "authentic" performance of this element of the work   And the tenor is allergic to horsehair.

Not specifically Shaw's interpretation, which has its insights but, as so often with Shaw doesn't work as a whole.  In particular, it's very difficult to spatchcock an economistic approach on to the Ring.  Shaw's attempt breaks down in particular in dealing with Gotterdammerung, where he ends up simply dismissing the bits that don't fit with his theoty

But I do think that the Ring is capable of both a socialistic interpretation (hence, in part, the nom de plume), and, more specifically, a green one - at the heart of the Ring is the theme of innocence and nature violated by the will to power, and the ambiguity of experience; more William Morris than Shaw.  Moving away from warm, diatonic nature is essential to become fully human, but the rot sets in once nature is taken for granted and abused (this is a theme in another of the best commentaries on the Ring, Donington's Wagner's Ring and its Symbols, whose Jungian approach may not be wholly convincing throughout but has some wonderful insights along the way).  It is certainly true that the elemental nature music is some of the most immediately appealing in the Ring, and the contrast between the song of the Rhinemaidens at the end of Rheingold and the bombast of the Gods' grand entry into Valhalla is for me one of the most poignant moments in the work.

Incidentally, I'd agree with the recommendations for both Bryan Magee's books, especially Wagner and Philosophy, which offers the best and most readable exposition of the philosophical background to the work I have encountered.

An important point to make is that just as in Shakespeare, there's far too much in The Ring to reveal even a tenth of its secrets in a single interpretation dramatically or, for that matter in this case, musically. Once the Wagner family themselves had started the practice of re-interpreting the works in the light of political thought and modern theatre techniques, then there really could be no going back to presenting the piece as a rather extreme fairy tale and nothing more: indeed the 'English Ring' at Bayreuth (Peter Hall/Solti) in 1983, the last home territory attempt so to do, with Rhinemaidens (gawd 'elp us) swimming in real water is generally described as 'a fiasco' and almost forgotten, whereas the Chereau/Boulez cycle (where the Rhinemaidens' scene took place in a power station) which preceded it, and came close to causing riots at its premiere, has gone on to be regarded as one of the most illuminating cycles ever.

Possibly one could view it as anti-capitalist rather than specifically socialist? The message I get from the work is more along the lines of a blissful state of nature and an idealised organic society corrupted by capitalist greed. Like many sentimental romantics (including some who viewed themselves as socialists), Wagner seems to evoke a 'return to nature' as a remedy, looking backwards rather than forwards (Thomas Carlyle thought similarly). Though of course this organic society never existed and is only an ideal; in terms of actual attempts to create such an alternative to industrial capitalism, we know where that all led......

for DAS RHEINGOLD, yes, but it doesn't (I mean it never DID) hold good for the entire RING.

Do you mean that...Alberich is a figment of Hagen's imagination? It's a possibility, I suppose...

Have you seen this...
http://members.fortunecity.co.uk/leonora/ring1.html

It's part of my Ph.D thesis on Morris and Wagner.....tell me what you think!
BTW, a few years ago I gave a paper to the Socialist History Society about Morris..it was entitled, William Morris - the first Green Socialist?