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Author Topic: A few naive questions.....  (Read 4377 times)
Sydney Grew
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« Reply #105 on: 13:01:29, 28-06-2007 »

The feminist writer Juliet Fower MacCannell writes that, in terms of the 'Woman Question', '. . . Long before the woman's movement he assailed women's abuse, archaic as well as contemporary.

We have always understood the women to have begun moving round about 1890. But Theodor Adorno was born in 1903. The female writer Juliet Fower MacCannell appears then to be labouring under considerable misapprehension.
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #106 on: 13:08:43, 28-06-2007 »

We have always understood the women to have begun moving round about 1890. But Theodor Adorno was born in 1903. The female writer Juliet Fower MacCannell appears then to be labouring under considerable misapprehension.
I believe she is talking about the contemporary women's movement, which started to become a prominent entity in the 1960s.
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
Kittybriton
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Thank you for the music ...


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« Reply #107 on: 14:00:28, 28-06-2007 »

The feminist writer Juliet Fower MacCannell writes that, in terms of the 'Woman Question', '. . . Long before the woman's movement he assailed women's abuse, archaic as well as contemporary.

We have always understood the women to have begun moving round about 1890. But Theodor Adorno was born in 1903. The female writer Juliet Fower MacCannell appears then to be labouring under considerable misapprehension.


I wasn't aware that women were ever stationary for very long. With the exception of artists models of course.
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George Garnett
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« Reply #108 on: 12:05:51, 13-05-2008 »

I think this is probably a request to be pointed towards some reading material as much as anything. It's this business, which appears to be commmonly accepted currency, about their being a trap, which we should assidously avoid falling into, of describing anyone as a 'great composer'.

I will admit I hadn't previously felt much embarrassment about using the term since, once it is accepted that some composers seem to be better at it than others, it would seem harmless enough to use 'great composer' as a term to describe someone whom I considered to be one of the ... really jolly spiffingly good ones. Mutatis mutandis: 'great boxer', 'great shot putter', 'great defence advocate', 'great comedian' or whatever. But there must obviously be more to it than that and there is some accepted wisdom, presumably about the hidden implications contained within the term, that I have failed to pick up on. I assume someone (cultural theorist? political theorist? post-modern linguist?) has done such an effective hatchet job on the term that it is no longer usable in polite circles. Could someone kindly add yet further to my ever expanding R3OK reading list  Undecided with a pointer or two? 
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #109 on: 15:24:38, 13-05-2008 »

I think this is probably a request to be pointed towards some reading material as much as anything. It's this business, which appears to be commmonly accepted currency, about their being a trap, which we should assidously avoid falling into, of describing anyone as a 'great composer'.

I will admit I hadn't previously felt much embarrassment about using the term since, once it is accepted that some composers seem to be better at it than others, it would seem harmless enough to use 'great composer' as a term to describe someone whom I considered to be one of the ... really jolly spiffingly good ones. Mutatis mutandis: 'great boxer', 'great shot putter', 'great defence advocate', 'great comedian' or whatever. But there must obviously be more to it than that and there is some accepted wisdom, presumably about the hidden implications contained within the term, that I have failed to pick up on. I assume someone (cultural theorist? political theorist? post-modern linguist?) has done such an effective hatchet job on the term that it is no longer usable in polite circles. Could someone kindly add yet further to my ever expanding R3OK reading list  Undecided with a pointer or two? 
I don't know of a particular text exclusively concentrating on the construction of the 'great composer', but the issue is certainly touched upon in a wide range of writings. It is often tied in with discussion of the 'work concept', which loosely refers to a relatively autonomous work designed as much for posterity as the immediate moment, a construction which is argued to have really come into its own only from Beethoven onwards. The cult of the 'great composer' is tied into that of 'great works'. The best book I could recommend on that subject (and one I think you will appreciate) is Lydia Goehr, The Imaginary Museum of Musical Works. Otherwise, much of the 'great composer' critique has come from feminist musicology, often in a rather chippy way; the argument is usually to suggest that women musicians (especially popular ones, not least Madonna) somehow express some type of more collectivist subjectivity, as opposed to the alienated masculine individualism of 'great composers'. Plenty on that can be found in the usual suspects: McClary Feminine Endings, Conventional Wisdom and the essay 'Terminal Prestige' in particular, and various essays in Ruth Solie (ed), Musicology and Difference: Gender and Sexuality in Music Scholarship. Marcia Citron's Gender and the Musical Canon criticises supposedly masculine conceptions of greatness upon which the canon is formed. Tia DeNora's Beethoven and the Construction of Genius tries to suggest that Beethoven's greatness was mostly on the whim of the Viennese aristocracy of his time, and had little to do with the music (for a scathing critique of this, see Rosen's essay on the book in Critical Entertainments). Other attacks on the 'great composer' come from those who wish to play it off against other type of collectivist music-making; there's stuff on this in Georgina Born and David Hesmondhalgh, Western Music and its Others and Tia DeNora, Music in Everyday Life, I think. Hope this helps.
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
stuart macrae
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ascolta


« Reply #110 on: 15:29:44, 13-05-2008 »

That's a pretty great list, Ian  Wink
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George Garnett
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« Reply #111 on: 15:59:28, 13-05-2008 »

Hope this helps.

Not 'arf  Cheesy

                         

Thanks very much, Ian. That was kind. I will definitely now get hold of Lydia Goehr's book which I had heard good things about (probably from you, come to think of it) but never got round to reading.

Tia DeNora's Beethoven book I have dipped into but not read properly. I've an unseemly feeling I might enjoy Charles Rosen's scathing critique but I suppose it would only be fair to finish DeNora's book first.

Thanks a lot. That should keep me quiet for a bit.     
« Last Edit: 16:01:10, 13-05-2008 by George Garnett » Logged
Ian Pace
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« Reply #112 on: 16:14:00, 13-05-2008 »

You can find Lydia Goehr's book for just £8 on Amazon here. On the other hand, there is a strange case of Goehr and Adorno translator Robert Hullot-Kentor having supposedly authored this book  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
George Garnett
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« Reply #113 on: 16:55:23, 13-05-2008 »

Bagged it Smiley. The former rather than the latter, that is. Thanks once more.
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #114 on: 16:58:34, 14-05-2008 »

It seems that various authors have had more varied publishing careers than we may have imagined: who'd have thought Enid Blyton would have written this?
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
Don Basilio
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« Reply #115 on: 17:55:17, 14-05-2008 »

Ian, that's a gem.  There is no smiley to express my reactions.  Thank you.
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #116 on: 15:36:23, 27-05-2008 »

Er, the making of what?
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Don Basilio
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« Reply #117 on: 16:13:44, 27-05-2008 »

Sexual violence and the making of custard.

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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
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Morticia
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« Reply #118 on: 16:18:01, 27-05-2008 »

Presumably there would have been mention of lashings of ginger beer?
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Turfan Fragment
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« Reply #119 on: 16:26:31, 27-05-2008 »

What the hell is going on? That's the naivest question I can muster...

Enid Blyton wrote a book by Lawrence Kramer? Do people sometimes create bogus Amazon entries?
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