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Bryn
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« Reply #2610 on: 08:55:29, 06-04-2008 » |
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No chapter and verse offered, Ron, the wording of the relevant section is:
"The manuscript of the Fourth was burned during the siege of Leningrad in the Second World War. Shostakovich reconstructed the work later on the basis of the particella and the parts written out."
Ron, checking with Elizabeth Wilson's "Shostakovich: A Life Remembered", she refers to Kondrashin reminiscing that it was Levon Atovmyan who found and reconstructed the parts into a full score and two piano reduction, (though the wording of the passage just about leaves open the suggestion that Atovmyan fond the parts and Shostakovich made the reconstruction). I see that Pauline Fairclough reports that various Russian Librarian sources claim that the work, which Kondrashin (according to Wilson) described as "very carelessly done, with few dynamic markings and tempo indications ", was done by Shalman at Atovmyan's behest. The point about the lack of tempo indications is particularly interesting, don't you think? Kondrashin is reported as claiming that on seeing the reconstructed score, Shostakovich was initially uncertain about whether the work would be worth performing, or whether the score would need further work, but got back to Kondrashin within a day to give him the go-ahead, using the score without further amendment. The loss of the score is widely attributed to Gauk, to whom Shostakovich is said to have entrusted it. Some still hope that it will turn up eventually in the Gauk family archives, though others remind us that much paper was burned in Leningrad during the siege, simply for its calorific value. |
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« Last Edit: 09:08:15, 06-04-2008 by Bryn »
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Ron Dough
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« Reply #2611 on: 10:00:43, 06-04-2008 » |
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The other Shostakovich scores I've seen from this period (the 2nd and 3rd symphonies) are also pretty much lacking in tempo indications: there are basic directions and occasional metronome markings, so it may well reflect what was in the original manuscript, and thus in the parts.
I was aware that Gauk was thought to have been responsible for the loss of the score, though in a note he wrote to Shostakovich after the premiere, he mentions that "....In the past few years, I have often looked through this score...", and his heirs claimed that the three manuscripts which were in Gauk's possession (the 4th, 5th and 6th symphonies) were all lost in a fire at his dacha. The report about Kondrashin claiming that Shostakovich was initially uncertain whether the work would be worth performing seems to be a slightly garbled version of what I've mentioned above: Shostakovich was uncertain until he'd seen the two-piano reduction, as it was many years since he'd encountered the piece: ["....so many years have passed, I have forgotten a great deal, and I have lost the score"]. He asked KK to leave it with him, and asked him to return in two days' time. When he returned two days later he was given the go-ahead.... ["You can play it. I will phone Leningrad and you will be sent the score. Nothing needs to be rewritten. This symphony still has something dear to me."] . It's possible that some of the dynamics had to be interpolated from the two-piano version, which Shostakovich had played, and thus, presumably, considered correct. When Kondrashin questioned details in the score, and even suggested a cut, he tells us that the composer answered wearily "....let them have it, let them have it....".
If nobody else objects, I'd rather that the posts on this subject should be relocated to the main DCSH thread.
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JP_Vinyl
Gender: 
Posts: 37
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« Reply #2612 on: 11:54:02, 06-04-2008 » |
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No signs of the Moscow correspondent yet!
Now listening to Mahler's 1st, on a CD from Naxos with the Polish National Symphony Radio Orchestra playing. I have a version from EMI with Riccardo Muti conducting somewhere, but I have no idea where. I've been delving into Mahler's symphonies quite a lot lately, and I find his first movements are like infinite mazes where I get blissully lost, forgetting to emerge into the rest of the piece quite often. For instance, on the 5th, I when the initial 'sleigh bell' motif returns halfway through, I find myself returning to the beginning to try and fathom this time exactly how Mahler managed to move through all that rather non-linear (or indeed, non-circular) development back to his starting point, then of course I hear it through to see the different places he goes after circling back, then repeat the whole thing because it seems as if a distantly-glimpsed shape is emerging a little more clearly from the mist and so on ad absurdum. At least with the 5th symphony, it seems as if the opening motif on the second movement somehow echoes the opening motif of the first (which in turn always makes me vaguely suspect that perhaps this time a Live Evil era Miles Davis jam will ensue) which makes me hear that one as well before repeating.
I should just hear them through in their entirety, I know, Sometimes I do!
I listened to some of my Karajan LPs this morning to mark the anniversary - an LP of dances, Hungarian and Slovakian, by Brahms and Dvorak and Beethoven's 9th. A previous poster mentions his affinity for Sibelius, and I have a couple of Sibelius symphonies directed by Karajan unheard in my latest LP haul, so perhaps I will spin that later.
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I am not going to be shot in a wheel-barrow, for the sake of appearances, to please anybody.
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #2613 on: 22:06:21, 06-04-2008 » |
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When Kondrashin questioned details in the score, and even suggested a cut, he tells us that the composer answered wearily "....let them have it, let them have it....". Indeed I know that quote as "let them eat it"... |
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #2614 on: 11:04:28, 07-04-2008 » |
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 Now I've heard a bit of Scheidt here and there but the chance to wallow in a disc of complete Scheidt hadn't come my way before. Wonderful stuff. Can't think why his name isn't held in higher regard... |
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brassbandmaestro
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« Reply #2615 on: 16:59:03, 07-04-2008 » |
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Yes Oliver Sudden. Scheidt should get better recognition. I played an arrangement by that eminent late trumpet player, philip Jones, of the composer's battle Suite for brass quintet. That got me delving into that composer's music m ore and find it very worth while indeed.
Now spinning Brahms: Piano Quintet in F minor, Op11; String Qt in A minor, op51/2(Stephen Hough, Takacs Qt). lovely recording this on the enterprising Hyperion label.
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mahlerei
Guest
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« Reply #2616 on: 14:22:51, 08-04-2008 » |
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Rzewski - The People United Will Never Be Defeated! (Ralph van Raat, Naxos).
Does anyone know about a live 1975 performance of this piece? I believe is is well worth hearing.
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pim_derks
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« Reply #2617 on: 15:28:39, 08-04-2008 » |
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Henry Brant's orchestral transcription of Ives's second piano sonata, "A Concord Symphony", which was on the doormat when I got home from work. It is all I had been led to expect - a considerable disappointment. Yes indeed, Bryn. The Concertgebouw Orchestra performed this piece a few years ago. The performance was good, but a bad orchestration can't be saved by a good performance. To me, the worst part of the orchestration was the third movement. So elegantly written for the piano, so terribly noisy in this orchestration. What a missed opportunity.  On topic: Nigel Kennedy playing the Mlynarski and Karlowicz Violin Concertos.  |
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"People hate anything well made. It gives them a guilty conscience." John Betjeman
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Don Basilio
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« Reply #2618 on: 15:32:50, 08-04-2008 » |
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Kuijken's recording of Handel's Partenope. I've had it for ages and steered clear of listening to it, due to my suspicion of one lot of princes and princesses in disguise is much like another in Handel, but the music is glorious.
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
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John W
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« Reply #2619 on: 16:01:07, 08-04-2008 » |
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At home alone much of today I took the opportunity this morning to select a boxed set from a modest pile of not-yet-played charity vinyl.
Fidelio. First time I have listened through this opera (I might have dipped into the set briefly before, not sure).
Side one, I had to pinch myself to remember I was listening to Beethoven not Mozart (my listening experience of opera is minimal) but as the opera progressed I heard it more as Beethoven. Some moving moments, some touching exchanges, I did enjoy Fidelio, though I thought the Leonora on this set was a bit weak.
The recording I have is an old Deutsche Grammophon, Ferenc Fricsay with Bayerisches Staatsorchester, featuring Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau as Pizarro, Ernst Haefliger as Florestan, Leonie Rysanek as Leonora. The disc labels suggest the recording is from 1957, it is in stereo, the wax indicates pressing 1963, the DG 'Privilege' label suggest a re-issue c.1970 possibly.
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Evan Johnson
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« Reply #2620 on: 16:14:15, 08-04-2008 » |
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 In particular, Warm betrübst du dich, mein Herz? BWV 138. From the clearance rack at the local branch of a big chain bookstore that seems to be getting out of the CD business (and, perhaps, the book business at well...). This is making me keenly regret my near-total ignorance of all the cantatas other than the most famous handful. I've been deterred from this series before due to its very high price, but got this and another volume at half price... seems to me on first listen to deserve all the critical fawning it's received. Dissenters? |
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #2621 on: 16:32:55, 08-04-2008 » |
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Warm betrübst du dich, mein Herz? Now there's a reinterpretation I hadn't considered...  I've only heard a few of those but as Bach with choir goes, the ones I've heard have been about as good as I could imagine. |
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richard barrett
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« Reply #2622 on: 17:54:19, 08-04-2008 » |
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I agree. I have all but one of the sets released so far and most of them are very fine. Has anyone had a go at this yet? |
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Bryn
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« Reply #2623 on: 17:56:34, 08-04-2008 » |
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The Concertgebouw Orchestra performed this piece a few years ago. The performance was good, but a bad orchestration can't be saved by a good performance. To me, the worst part of the orchestration was the third movement. So elegantly written for the piano, so terribly noisy in this orchestration. What a missed opportunity. Yes pim, that's the performance used on the CD. |
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #2624 on: 18:02:53, 08-04-2008 » |
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Has anyone had a go at this yet? Not yet! (At least, not I.) I saw it in a shop in Guess Where a couple of days back but was already a bit loaded up... Hm, my wilful misinterpretation circuit certainly kicked in here: Chant des Déportés, for large soprano and tenor chorus & orchestra |
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« Last Edit: 18:08:47, 08-04-2008 by oliver sudden »
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