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Soundwave
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« Reply #15 on: 09:15:03, 28-02-2007 » |
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Morning ho! I think I prefer this Norstein Cheers  |
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Ho! I may be old yet I am still lusty
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Stevo
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« Reply #16 on: 12:53:38, 28-02-2007 » |
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Oh, is that what it is. My working hypothesis was that it was Emily's Shop where Bagpuss lives. But I'm clearly entering my fourth or fifth childhood.
Oh dear, sorry about the effect of Norstein's little grey wolf. He's terribly lonely and worried and very gentle. He wouldn't harm a soul and I'm very fond of him. Here's a couple more to show that he shouldn't cause nightmares at all once you get to know him.
Indeed, and it helps that he comes from what I think is unquestionably the greatest animated film in the history of cinema (and I'm not alone in that judgement). One of those rare artworks which actually evoke powerful emotions in you just at the thought of it. And the most affecting use of Bach as well... |
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« Last Edit: 12:58:53, 28-02-2007 by Stevo »
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richard barrett
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« Reply #17 on: 13:05:15, 28-02-2007 » |
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Very interesting, Stevo (and George and Soundwave). I've never heard of this film or Norstein before. Evidently I should arrange to see it as soon as possible.
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lovedaydewfall
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« Reply #18 on: 20:14:22, 28-02-2007 » |
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who can compose smart little works skilfuly in any given style or idiom at the drop of a hat,
How else are they to make a living? Well, there are all sorts of ways they might make an alternative living, such as teaching other people how to produce meaningless twaddle in the guise of music! But yes: this thread would not have lasted long on the "real" BBC radio 3 boards, which I am now deserting in favour of this one. And also it's worth saying that there are many other names who ought to be included with Ades, such as Maxie D., Harry Birtwistle, and scores of others. |
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richard barrett
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« Reply #19 on: 20:29:07, 28-02-2007 » |
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meaningless twaddle One of the nicer things about these messageboards as compared with the "old" ones is that those of us who are enthusiastic about contemporary composition could discuss it without being sidetracked by those who think it's a load of nonsense and want everyone else to know what they think, if you can call such mindless rejection "thinking". Please try to keep it to yourself and I promise not to post on any thread connected with Choral Evensong. OK? |
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martle
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« Reply #20 on: 20:49:38, 28-02-2007 » |
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Seconded Richard. Loveday, let's try to be organised here. If you want to start a thread called 'New Music is Twaddle', go right ahead, but there were a few interesting issues emerging on this one which don't warrant intemperate disruption. Don't you think?  |
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Green. Always green.
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tonybob
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« Reply #21 on: 20:50:04, 28-02-2007 » |
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Well, there are all sorts of ways they might make an alternative living, such as teaching other people how to produce meaningless twaddle in the guise of music! And also it's worth saying that there are many other names who ought to be included with Ades, such as Maxie D., Harry Birtwistle, and scores of others.
yes! ades, maxwell davies and birtwistle are the best known british contemporary composers, so jolly well done for being able to remember their names. have you really really sat down and listened to this music? really? really??'maxie d' and 'harry' birtwistle, along with 'scores of others', including Knussen, turnage, bryars, payne, matthews, berio (rip) etc etc, produce(d) some of the most exciting and colourful music around today. try listening to some. i mean listen.of course, it's all personal opinion. but you are exactly.... wrong. |
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« Last Edit: 20:52:56, 28-02-2007 by tonybob »
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sososo s & i.
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time_is_now
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« Reply #22 on: 20:50:52, 28-02-2007 » |
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For anything one might love or loathe about the music of Ades, suggesting that it sounds a lick like Ligeti or - in particular - Elliott Carter seems slightly far-fetched to me. Well, Ades' Piano Quintet is quite clearly a response to Ligeti's Horn Trio (in the 'significant allusion' rather than the 'dodgy rip-off' kind of way, to my ears) - not least in the upside-down version of the 'horn fifths' motto with which it opens. Carter I don't hear really, though I guess at a superficial level the rhythmic complexity is roughly of the same order - just that I think the complexities in Ades tend to be relatively localised. Ades gets a lot of stick for being heavily promoted, which I understand, but I couldn't put my hand on my heart and say I've never liked a piece by him. For the record, here's a list (off the top of my head) of the ones I've enjoyed: America: A Prophecy Life Story (wonderful Billie Holiday-ish Tennessee Williams setting) The Tempest (yes, I did actually, even if it did sound a lot like Owen Wingrave and various other pieces at certain points) Piano Quintet the little Madness transcription for the Composers' Ensemble Asyla was OK too. I thought the Violin Concerto with the second-year-undergraduate-ish subtitle ('Concentric Paths', iirc) was utter crap, and there are plenty more pieces that have gone in one ear and out the other. But I'm not going to pretend I like nothing by him just because he's been marketed to death (a tendency which I thought had finally abated but now seems to have come back with a vengeance). |
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
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time_is_now
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« Reply #23 on: 20:54:43, 28-02-2007 » |
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Oh, and (on the subject of Ligeti-ishness again) the Chamber Symphony is permeated by a not-too-subtle variant of the Ligeti 'lamento' melody.
Btw, George, I'm glad you posted some other pics of little wolfie. I can see now how cute he is, but I must confess that - although I didn't find it as disturbing as the other poster claimed - there is something rather Bacon-study-for-a-pope-ish about your avatar, at least at the size it appears on my screen ...
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
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roslynmuse
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« Reply #24 on: 22:34:57, 28-02-2007 » |
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I'm going to add Darkness Visible as my favourite Ades piece - a chipping perhaps, but a very beautiful one.
(And it's not his fault he's published by Faber.)
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #25 on: 02:35:51, 01-03-2007 » |
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who can compose smart little works skilfuly in any given style or idiom at the drop of a hat,
How else are they to make a living? Once someone said to Birtwistle that a composer should be able to write in any style. He responded 'I find it hard enough to write my own music, let alone anyone else's', or words to that effect. |
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
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aaron cassidy
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« Reply #26 on: 03:02:44, 01-03-2007 » |
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For the record, here's a list (off the top of my head) of the ones I've enjoyed:
I'm still quite stunned by the inventiveness and originality of the orchestration in Living Toys. There are some bits in Asyla that I find similarly impressive, at least on a local level. I find his work problematic on a variety of levels, but there are some bits, particularly in some earlier works, where there are clear signs of originality and skill. Just for the record, and at the risk of some embarrassment. Ian - thanks for sharing that Birtwistle quote. I like it quite a lot. |
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George Garnett
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« Reply #27 on: 03:09:49, 01-03-2007 » |
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I'm glad you posted some other pics of little wolfie. I can see now how cute he is, but I must confess that - although I didn't find it as disturbing as the other poster claimed - there is something rather Bacon-study-for-a-pope-ish about your avatar, at least at the size it appears on my screen ...
Yes the poor chap has been elongated a bit in the 'postage stamp' version. I wouldn't quite say he is 'cute' but I have a great affection and fellow-feeling for him. For those who don't know the Norstein film 'Tale of Tales' it really is, as Stevo says, one of those rare 'once seen never forgotten' works of art that worms its way into your consciousness and affects how you see the world from then on. I'm always haranguing people at bus-stops or supermarket queues to see it. Norstein's own story and his relations with the Soviet authorities is a fascinating one too. There are some early 'propaganda' films too which use Shostakovich's music and Soviet realist art as a basis. But they both are and aren't propaganda (but you couldn't quite finger him for it because he appears to obey the rules) in a very personal way. A very interesting man. Oh, and I agree about 'Hedgehog in the Fog' too, Soundwave. A lovely and haunting film. But even so I somehow think 'Tale of Tales' is the 'big' one which contains Norstein's deepest and most personal thoughts. And then there is, or isn't yet sadly, the unfinished 'The Overcoat'..... Sorry to have taken over the Ades thread with this. My defence is that it was S-S wot started it  |
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« Last Edit: 03:28:02, 01-03-2007 by George Garnett »
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Ron Dough
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« Reply #28 on: 09:54:43, 01-03-2007 » |
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My, GG, you're even more of a night owl than me: three in the morning! Is this an early rise, a late going to bed or just insomnia? I hope that all's alright,
Ron
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George Garnett
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« Reply #29 on: 10:20:49, 01-03-2007 » |
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...even more of a night owl than me According to your avatar, Ron, (Bubo bubo?) I had you down as more crepuscular But you're quite it was slightly odd behaviour. I'll have to watch it. I hadn't realised it was quite as late as it was though. I thought it was about 2.00. I blame Mr Henrik Ibsen though for leading me astray. I went to the Donmar's John Gabriel Borkman last night which was astoundingly well acted (with one exception, which was probably just as well) and it was one of those occasions when you wander around in a daze afterwards with it all churning round in your head. Got back very late and couldn't sleep. In my defence I wish to pray in aid that Ian Pace was on line too at that bizarre hour of the night. The even more worrying behaviour though is logging in again next morning not long after I'd prized both eyes open  Early night tonight, I think. Just to keep vaguely on topic, and at the risk of lowering my social standing even further, I didn't think Ades The Tempest was at all bad. More as a musical meditation on the play than a drama in it's own right though. I agree with Mary C (I think it was, I can't find the post now) that it was badly let down by the librettist (I mean Meredith Oakes not Mr W S). |
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« Last Edit: 01:34:18, 07-09-2007 by George Garnett »
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