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« Reply #30 on: 14:18:21, 03-05-2007 » |
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Ah, yes, I know this story very well. Will fill you in on the details some time (Martin Suckling is a friend of mine). For a rather different view of the same concert (and aftermath) see: http://www.therestisnoise.com/2005/01/germany_attacks.html... though I think Alex Ross goes too far in the other direction, especially on the subject of German modernism. |
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
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richard barrett
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« Reply #31 on: 14:25:43, 03-05-2007 » |
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From that article: Es ist schwer zu entscheiden, ob diese Musik für das gegenwärtige Großbritannien repräsentativ ist oder nur den Geschmack des dirigierenden Komponisten George Benjamin widerspiegelt ... which seems to indicate that the critic (in common with most of his colleagues most of the time) hasn't done his homework, because if he had he'd see that it isn't at all difficult to decide. He could also have looked at the British composers resident in Berlin at that time, neither of whom, oops, I mean none of whom were prominently represented in the festival that year. I think a more enlightened (German) view of what British contemporary music actually consists of might be found looking elsewhere than in the Berliner Zeitung, which is a fairly cruddy organ at the best of times. Alex Ross's response reads like Lebrecht. (And I don't mean that in a nice way, in case anyone was wondering.  ) |
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« Last Edit: 14:30:48, 03-05-2007 by richard barrett »
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #32 on: 14:33:30, 03-05-2007 » |
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Ah yes, I know that article, pretty much of a piece with Alex Ross's typical anti-German stuff (which always plays well in the US, like any bashing of 'Old Europe'). While there's quite a bit of British music that doesn't accord with Brachmann's article, as far as the mainstream is concerned, I think he hits the nail on the head, especially with the following: 'Alle Traumata des 20. Jahrhunderts sind hier ausgetilgt. Diese Musik fängt, geschichtsvergessen und unbeschwert, dort an, wo eine zukunftsfröhliche Musik vor dem Ersten Weltkrieg schon einmal stand.' |
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
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time_is_now
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« Reply #33 on: 14:35:45, 03-05-2007 » |
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Yes, indeed, well if Alex Ross had done his homework he would have realised he didn't need to slag off the whole of the German contemporary music scene in order to speak up for the 'ecumenical approach' he thinks is so important.
Actually, I doubt Alex Ross has ever listened to a piece by Richard Barrett or Rebecca Saunders. So much for ecumenicism.
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
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richard barrett
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« Reply #34 on: 14:36:41, 03-05-2007 » |
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as far as the mainstream is concerned, I think he hits the nail on the head Only because that particular segment of the mainstream is the only contemporary British music he's heard, or maybe he knows more but won't let it get in the way of a juicy bit of chauvinism. I see no reason to praise ignorance, even when one agrees with its results! |
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #35 on: 14:41:50, 03-05-2007 » |
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In Ross's Ghost Sonata article, that lack of homework is made rather blatantly apparent by the fact that, when criticising recent German music, he concentrates quite a bit on Haas, Neuwirth and Staud, all of whom are Austrian (some might say that this distinction is not so important, but Ross frames it all in terms of post-war German history; post-war Austrian history is a very different matter. He does at one point speak of 'German-speaking lands' rather than simply 'Germany', but for the most part he merely uses the latter). |
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
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time_is_now
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« Reply #36 on: 14:44:49, 03-05-2007 » |
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While there's quite a bit of British music that doesn't accord with Brachmann's article, as far as the mainstream is concerned, I think he hits the nail on the head, especially with the following: 'Alle Traumata des 20. Jahrhunderts sind hier ausgetilgt. Diese Musik fängt, geschichtsvergessen und unbeschwert, dort an, wo eine zukunftsfröhliche Musik vor dem Ersten Weltkrieg schon einmal stand.' 'Austilgen' is a bit of a loaded word, but do you really think that music should be judged on whether or not it remembers the 'traumas of the 20th century'? And if so, which traumas? You might argue that a significant amount of non-British-mainstream contemporary music remembers the Holocaust, but how much of it remembers the Rwandan genocide, or the Vietnam War? 'Alle Traumata' begs as many questions as it answers. |
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #37 on: 14:51:00, 03-05-2007 » |
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While there's quite a bit of British music that doesn't accord with Brachmann's article, as far as the mainstream is concerned, I think he hits the nail on the head, especially with the following: 'Alle Traumata des 20. Jahrhunderts sind hier ausgetilgt. Diese Musik fängt, geschichtsvergessen und unbeschwert, dort an, wo eine zukunftsfröhliche Musik vor dem Ersten Weltkrieg schon einmal stand.' 'Austilgen' is a bit of a loaded word, but do you really think that music should be judged on whether or not it remembers the 'traumas of the 20th century'? And if so, which traumas? You might argue that a significant amount of non-British-mainstream contemporary music remembers the Holocaust, but how much of it remembers the Rwandan genocide, or the Vietnam War? 'Alle Traumata' begs as many questions as it answers. I read the comment as referring to the fact that, in light of the traumas of the 20th century, various pre-WW1 optimistic sensibilities seem hollow, outdated, and naive. But no doubt if I follow up the implications of your comments, Ollie and Richard will pipe in to protest (maybe a glance here would be good), so let's leave that for private communications. |
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
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TimR-J
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« Reply #38 on: 14:53:26, 03-05-2007 » |
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Funny, only last week in preparation for reviewing a Suckling piece at the RAM I got drawn into re-reading Ross's Ghost Sonata piece and its offshoots. Whether Ross's characterisation of current German music is accurate or not, I thought it most odd in the amount of blame he placed upon Adorno, as though Adorno was a cause rather than a symptom.
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richard barrett
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« Reply #39 on: 14:56:05, 03-05-2007 » |
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no doubt if I follow up the implications of your comments, Ollie and Richard will pipe in to protest (maybe a glance here would be good), so let's leave that for private communications What an absolutely brilliant idea. |
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #40 on: 14:59:13, 03-05-2007 » |
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no doubt if I follow up the implications of your comments, Ollie and Richard will pipe in to protest (maybe a glance here would be good), so let's leave that for private communications What an absolutely brilliant idea. And the same must surely go for the traumas of the Iraq War, and the question of how a contemporary composer is to respond at such a time? |
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
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richard barrett
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« Reply #41 on: 15:00:09, 03-05-2007 » |
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Put a sock in it Ian.
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time_is_now
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« Reply #42 on: 15:04:22, 03-05-2007 » |
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let's leave that for private communications What an absolutely brilliant idea. OK then, my last comment on this particular offshoot of the topic, but just to say that while I'm sure 'various pre-WW1 optimistic sensibilities' do 'seem hollow, outdated, and naive', I really don't see what that has to do with James Olsen's or Martin Suckling's pieces. Both of which I've heard. I'll happily make you a copy if you're interested. I doubt you'd like them much (neither do I, to be honest), but neither of them reminds me of 'pre-WW1 optimism', whatever that might be. |
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #43 on: 15:15:58, 03-05-2007 » |
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let's leave that for private communications What an absolutely brilliant idea. OK then, my last comment on this particular offshoot of the topic, but just to say that while I'm sure 'various pre-WW1 optimistic sensibilities' do 'seem hollow, outdated, and naive', I really don't see what that has to do with James Olsen's or Martin Suckling's pieces. Both of which I've heard. I'll happily make you a copy if you're interested. Haven't heard either of them, actually, but as far as the British mainstream (i.e. the bulk of British new music that is regularly played) goes, his comments ring very true. A lot of people I know in Europe have a similar reaction (I think when some concerts of British music have been put on in Darmstadt, this became a recurrent topic of conversation). |
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #44 on: 15:47:16, 03-05-2007 » |
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(I think when some concerts of British music have been put on in Darmstadt, this became a recurrent topic of conversation). And were these conversations you were personally involved in? I don't hear much of Olsen or Suckling in Germany. Indeed not having been at that concert I haven't heard any. There's been a fair bit of Adès and Turnage and Benjamin, also plenty of Birtwistle, Saunders, Harvey, Ferneyhough, Walshe and even Barrett (!). I don't think the article Ian quoted gives a fair impression of the broad picture. |
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