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Soundwave
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« Reply #45 on: 15:47:56, 03-05-2007 » |
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Ho! Quote - "the strong feeling in America that everything British is small ,incompetent and trivial."
Now that is very interesting. I have, over many years, found the opposite to be the case. They do think our country is small, as it is, but not incompetent or trivial at all.
Cheers
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Ho! I may be old yet I am still lusty
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #46 on: 15:49:19, 03-05-2007 » |
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(I think when some concerts of British music have been put on in Darmstadt, this became a recurrent topic of conversation). And were these conversations you were personally involved in? No, I wasn't there. |
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
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Evan Johnson
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« Reply #47 on: 19:54:37, 03-05-2007 » |
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I'm not impressed by the current generation of American composers....they may be 'cool' names to drop, but can they really cut the mustard? And, on a personal note, I can't help observing that the most pretentious people I know ALL seem to own Glass CDs. (NB - I'm sure a lot of non-pretentious people own them, too, but I must speak as I find!)
As a member of the sub-current generation of American composers, I am extremely curious to know whose names are cool to drop where you are! Some samples, please? I can also say with confidence that Tippett's presence in the American musician's consciousness is, generally speaking, approximately zero. |
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quartertone
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« Reply #48 on: 07:37:29, 04-05-2007 » |
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Ah, that explains a lot, Jen  Bearing in mind Richard's comment that Munich is untypical, can you nevertheless check Turnage, Benjamin, Anderson, Adès etc. as well as Tippett? Thanks. Turnage and Benjamin are somewhat known here in Germany because of their association with Ensemble Modern; Anderson and Adès less so. But most German New Music listeners are a bit less forgiving towards more traditional fare such as that offered by A and A; in Witten 2002, where the Ardittis played Adès's Piano Quintet (which I found pathetic, incidentally), the piece was almost universally derided. |
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quartertone
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« Reply #49 on: 07:42:25, 04-05-2007 » |
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quartertone
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« Reply #50 on: 07:54:17, 04-05-2007 » |
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Those articles by Alex Ross, as well as one on Lachenmann and Adorno (the latter clearly the object of a complex on his part) in which he concludes that Lachenmann's music, as it supposedly revels in German ethico-cultural self-flagellation, in fact "yearns for Hitler's hate" (his words, so no Godwin's Law invocations please!), are truly execrable. His suggestion that Beethoven did well to yield to public taste by withdrawing the Grosse Fuge from the B flat quartet is incredible; if he had his way, it would seem, the most groundbreaking pieces wouldn't have been written.
On a side note, claiming that Adorno shows anti-Semitism in his correspondence with Berg (which I know pretty well, having translated it - does he?) because he expressed distaste for certain Jewish financial circles is revealingly in keeping with neocon propaganda methods.
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time_is_now
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« Reply #51 on: 10:07:28, 04-05-2007 » |
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Thanks for the various interesting contributions, qt. Just wanted to ask about this one: Turnage and Benjamin are somewhat known here in Germany because of their association with Ensemble Modern; Anderson and Adès less so. But most German New Music listeners are a bit less forgiving towards more traditional fare such as that offered by A and A The example you go on to give of Adès' Piano Quintet is a little unrepresentative, since that's by far his most 'traditional' work (occupying, perhaps intentionally, a place in his output comparable to the Horn Trio in Ligeti's). Anyway, I'm not particularly interested in defending Adès but I'm curious about your characterisation of Anderson and Adès - who, even if you don't like what they do, you ought to acknowledge are two very different composers - as 'more traditional fare'. Certainly, of the four British composers you name I'd say Anderson and Benjamin are the least traditional, Anderson possibly even more so than Benjamin depending on how you interpret Benjamin's relation to various predecessors. Given which, and given this supposed unforgivingness of 'German New Music listeners' (what, they're a separate club from other German music listeners?) towards the 'traditional', how do you explain EM's involvement with Turnage rather than Anderson? |
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« Last Edit: 10:10:23, 04-05-2007 by time_is_now »
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
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quartertone
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« Reply #52 on: 10:16:50, 04-05-2007 » |
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how do you explain EM's involvement with Turnage rather than Anderson? That's an easy one: Turnage has a certain street cred (e.g. through the "jazz" elements in "Blood on the Floor", which I think was their first project together) that fits nicely with what might be referred to as Ensemble PostModern. I just remembered: I once heard EM play Anderson's "Poetry Nearing Silence", which I found both inane and thoroughly traditional. |
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #53 on: 10:21:19, 04-05-2007 » |
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Anderson and Adès are rather younger than Turnage and Benjamin, aren't they? Certainly they've been on the scene rather less long. EM have indeed played music by Anderson: they toured the Alhambra Fantasy (says his blurb) and played the Book of Hours at the ISCM in Stuttgart not so long ago. And a revealing one, as knee-jerk reactions tend to be. Enno's a fantastic composer and musician. Your loss if you don't see it. Ah, you've just posted again. Do you actually like anyone?  |
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quartertone
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« Reply #54 on: 10:26:42, 04-05-2007 » |
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And a revealing one, as knee-jerk reactions tend to be. Well yes, it reveals that I'm not a fan of his music. I did rather like his mini clarinet concerto, which you probably know, but not the other few pieces I've heard. But I'll keep my ears open. Enno's a fantastic composer and musician. Your loss if you don't see it. A fine musician, certainly. He once conducted a piece of mine with Ensemble Mosaik and did a very good job. He's a nice bloke too. But his approach to music is rather more meat-and-potatoes/nuts-and-bolts than mine, and I don't happen to think that he does that very well either. Do you actually like anyone? Of course not! |
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #55 on: 10:28:45, 04-05-2007 » |
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Oh well. Maybe someone can drop me a line when this for a moment stops being the Quartertone Slags Off Everyone He's Jealous Of thread.
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quartertone
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« Reply #56 on: 10:31:17, 04-05-2007 » |
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Oh well. Maybe someone can drop me a line when this for a moment stops being the Quartertone Slags Off Everyone He's Jealous Of thread.
If you fill me in on whom I'm supposedly jealous of that might be a start... Certainly no one I've mentioned here! |
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #57 on: 10:33:01, 04-05-2007 » |
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No, no, of course not.  |
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time_is_now
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« Reply #58 on: 10:35:49, 04-05-2007 » |
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how do you explain EM's involvement with Turnage rather than Anderson? That's an easy one: Turnage has a certain street cred (e.g. through the "jazz" elements in "Blood on the Floor", which I think was their first project together) that fits nicely with what might be referred to as Ensemble PostModern. I just remembered: I once heard EM play Anderson's "Poetry Nearing Silence", which I found both inane and thoroughly traditional. Well, that's not really an answer at all then, since your description of Turnage would also fit the epithets 'inane and traditional' - so I repeat, do you really think the relative lack of prominence of Anderson in Germany is primarily an issue of traditionalism rather than quite specific matters of stylistic/aesthetic alignment? Anderson and Adès are rather younger than Turnage and Benjamin, aren't they? Certainly they've been on the scene rather less long. Indeed. Yet another plausible explanation for their relative lack of prominence without resorting to accusations of 'traditionalism'. EM have indeed played music by Anderson: they toured the Alhambra Fantasy (says his blurb) and played the Book of Hours at the ISCM in Stuttgart not so long ago. Yes, I was at that Stuttgart concert. They played Book of Hours shockingly badly. Nonetheless, both that and Alhambra Fantasy are considerably less 'traditional' than the early and not especially characteristic Poetry Nearing Silence which q-t enjoyed so much. |
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
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quartertone
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« Reply #59 on: 10:39:49, 04-05-2007 » |
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