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C Dish
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« on: 17:16:21, 31-01-2008 » |
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So help me out with this grumpworthy situation.
I am teaching a Composition course (for beginning composers with little or no exposure to contemporary music). I thought it would make sense to expose them to new music while in parallel helping them develop their own ideas. They are required to write brief journal entries about 3 assigned new pieces every week, and on alternate days of course we are looking at their own exercises which I stress to them is an unrelated matter, really.
One of the students persists in her journal entries in labelling all of the music as 'creepy' and 'sickening' and says she's barely able to listen through the entire examples. Is it possible to be 'sickened' and 'creeped out' in equal measure by these works:
S Reich Music for 18 musicians
GF Malipiero Sinfonia in un tempo
J Adams Violin Concerto
A Copland Symphony no. 1
P Boulez Derive
M Lindberg Clarinet Quintet
A Clementi Intermezzo
G Ligeti Melodien
W Lutoslawski Chain 2
(I am dreading next week when we'll be hearing Stockhausen's Mantra, Robin Hoffmann's Finte, and Ferneyhough's La Chute d'Icare.)
(In case you're interested, each week has a theme of sorts, hopefully transcending stylistic boundaries to talk about more substantive things, i.e. techniques)
...and if so what would you do about it? I can't very well ask her to compile her own listening list. Should I just ditch the carefully constructed and themed listening list entirely and focus more on their (understandably) still entirely naive and (as yet) still directionless efforts? Or does an appreciation of contemporary music necessarily presuppose a familiarity with the classics of the early 20th century? I could just wait till she comes around on her own and meanwhile let her be 'sickened'. But that just seems cruel and heavy-handed.
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inert fig here
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #1 on: 17:19:38, 31-01-2008 » |
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Couldn't you ask her to elaborate on which aspects of the music she thinks lead her to hear it as 'creepy' and 'sickening', CD? At the very least, that might press her to try and identify what common elements those pieces, which seem dissimilar to us, share?
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
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richard barrett
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« Reply #2 on: 17:20:27, 31-01-2008 » |
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What kind of music doesn't creep her out? I mean, you actually could ask her to compile her own listening list and then take things from there, ie. from a position of music that she feels closer to.
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« Last Edit: 17:23:32, 31-01-2008 by richard barrett »
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C Dish
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« Reply #3 on: 17:34:31, 31-01-2008 » |
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Couldn't you ask her to elaborate on which aspects of the music she thinks lead her to hear it as 'creepy' and 'sickening', CD? At the very least, that might press her to try and identify what common elements those pieces, which seem dissimilar to us, share?
I am trying that; we'll see how it goes next Tuesday. Now I'm holding my breath and passing out the Hoffmann/Ferneyhough/Stockhausen assignment. Perhaps I'm making them listen to too much?! But a composer needs to absorb a lot of work, I think, or at least train themselves to do so. This week I'm also trying to create directed questions, though I don't really want them to listen with predisposed ears (hence little or no historical background either) |
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martle
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« Reply #4 on: 17:36:46, 31-01-2008 » |
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A combo of the two. Not even on these hallowed boards can one get away with 'it creeps me out'. (TOP may be another matter.) So she has to take some critical responsibility for her reactions, negative or positive, or both: she could sample the 'creepy' list at the same time as providing 'non creppy' examples of her own. And what about her own composing on the course? Ask her by what criteria she's making aesthetic choices in writing what presumably to her is creep-free music.
Anyway, you shouldn't change the thrust of your course to suit one creepophobe, CD.
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Green. Always green.
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C Dish
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« Reply #5 on: 17:38:44, 31-01-2008 » |
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There are only 4 students, so it's about 35% creepophobic (some others drift in her direction on occasion)
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Mary Chambers
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« Reply #6 on: 17:45:26, 31-01-2008 » |
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Today Ebay has sent me (is still sending me) dozens of emails telling me my latest Favourite Searches, insted of the usual one per search. Does any one know why? It's out of the blue.
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trained-pianist
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« Reply #7 on: 19:07:57, 31-01-2008 » |
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C Dish,
I have a lots of students like your student.
I learned to wait until they are ready and introduce things slowly. It is important to keep the class going.
Usually young people like Adams, Glass etc. I can not imagine she doesn't like Copland.
May be if you scale down with your ambitions to introduce them to too much new music. With time you will find people who are interested in new music and will enjoy more. I found that there are people who like new music.
Mr TP is teaching and it is getting harder and harder to teach, Text books are getting easier and easier (they through out all math and explain everything on five fingers - that is how he puts it).
In teaching if you have to keep students coming you have to give them what they want and slowly broaden their horizon. With time you will find more serious students.
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brassbandmaestro
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« Reply #8 on: 21:15:53, 31-01-2008 » |
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Give me performing anytime. I hated teaching!!
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MabelJane
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« Reply #9 on: 21:46:59, 31-01-2008 » |
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CD, were the students aware when they signed up for the course that they would be listening to contemporary music? To criticise all the music so far as "creepy" or "sickening" seems to imply that this student has a preconceived negative view of all contemporary music - I'm not a contemporary music fan myself but as a student I wouldn't be so unimaginative and narrow-minded as to label it all the same. I think she's taking the mickey.  |
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Merely corroborative detail, intended to give artistic verisimilitude to an otherwise bald and unconvincing narrative.
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martle
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« Reply #10 on: 22:24:17, 31-01-2008 » |
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Hey, Chafe, how come you get to teach a course with only four students, anyway? That's un-economic. We have to have have at least 10 at undergrad level, otherwise we don't get teaching credit. Grump.  You with your rich American ways. Sky's the limit, eh? |
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Green. Always green.
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marbleflugel
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« Reply #11 on: 22:32:33, 31-01-2008 » |
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Could`a solution here be to challenge her to write a bit of formal analysis in the style of Julie Burchill
and see how far she can take it. Alternatively hand her over to Syd and his ratings system.
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'...A celebrity is someone who didn't get the attention they needed as an adult'
Arnold Brown
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Ron Dough
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« Reply #12 on: 22:34:33, 31-01-2008 » |
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One of the students persists in her journal entries in labelling all of the music as 'creepy' and 'sickening' and says she's barely able to listen through the entire examples.
Is this just flannel? Is she actually listening at all, or just trying to find an easy way out of doing any work? I think martle's onto something here, and that chapter and verse (or at least minute and second examples) from each work should be provided, with a reason why they create this reaction: after all surely she's got to be able to think about music, if she's going to create it (or is that just a naïve Doughism?) The 'I can't listen because it makes me sick' is a little too close to the 'I can't write essay's because my hand's sore' excuse for my liking. |
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #13 on: 22:47:55, 31-01-2008 » |
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Hey, Chafe, how come you get to teach a course with only four students, anyway? That's un-economic. We have to have have at least 10 at undergrad level, otherwise we don't get teaching credit. Grump. You with your rich American ways. Sky's the limit, eh? Yes, indeed - typical, isn't it? A class I'm teaching at the mo has 22 students, and I have to grade each of them individually for their participation, after only four lectures/seminars, so some serious name/face memory required! CD's class, by comparison, is afternoon tea with the vicar - if you have only 4, you could make at least one of them (a certain one) have to explain their view for at least 15 minutes (without deviation, hesitation, etc.)  |
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
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John W
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« Reply #14 on: 23:15:44, 31-01-2008 » |
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Well, looking at the nine pieces listed I've heard maybe only three before, or have an idea what three would sound like, but the list scares the hell out of me and listening to several of them, never mind writing a journal for CD, would be very difficult, my comments/opinion would probably make no sense to CD, and I would be unable to explain. I do sympathise with her.  |
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