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martle
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« Reply #31 on: 12:46:49, 25-03-2008 » |
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Aaaaargh! Too late, I just did. That's the afternoon next ten minutes down the tube. |
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Green. Always green.
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time_is_now
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« Reply #32 on: 15:24:38, 25-03-2008 » |
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At the end the Bradford fans ran on the pitch and I didn't see a single Asian or black face (and this was Bradford). How does that fit in with her ideas about celebrating multiculturism?
But there are two points here: a) is multiculturalism something that should be celebrated? This is not intended as a rhetorical or provocative question - how can anything that ends with the suffix "ism" be some actual THING to celebrate? b) the idea of any causal link between "sport" and 'multiculturalism" is quite misplaced (however good an idea it might have been) - we all know (going back to Norman Tebbit's so-called [and true!] 'cricket test') that when an 'English' crowd of supporters turn up for a cricket match between the West Indies and England, those of one ethnicity naturally support one team, and those of another the other! It's just a FACT. Baz - how can anything that ends with the suffix "ism" be some actual THING to celebrate?
Don't understand. Why ever not? Classicism? Romaniticism? Academicism? Germaine Greer was at the University of Warwick, near Rugby. There is certainly no consistent thread in her piece, but to give her her due she never allows herself to be pigeon-holed. And she has as low an opinion of Enver Hodge as many members here. So, now we've got the rugby scores and the Thighs of Solomon out of the way, I'd be interested to hear Baz answer DonB's question. I'm also interested in this 'FACT' of which Baz speaks, and what it's meant to reveal to me about Germaine Greer's supposed lack of intelligence (is it cos she is Austrilian??). Apparently her idea of a causal link is misplaced. I'm not sure what it means to misplace an idea, or a causal link for that matter. |
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
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Baz
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« Reply #33 on: 19:29:56, 25-03-2008 » |
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At the end the Bradford fans ran on the pitch and I didn't see a single Asian or black face (and this was Bradford). How does that fit in with her ideas about celebrating multiculturism?
But there are two points here: a) is multiculturalism something that should be celebrated? This is not intended as a rhetorical or provocative question - how can anything that ends with the suffix "ism" be some actual THING to celebrate? b) the idea of any causal link between "sport" and 'multiculturalism" is quite misplaced (however good an idea it might have been) - we all know (going back to Norman Tebbit's so-called [and true!] 'cricket test') that when an 'English' crowd of supporters turn up for a cricket match between the West Indies and England, those of one ethnicity naturally support one team, and those of another the other! It's just a FACT. Baz - how can anything that ends with the suffix "ism" be some actual THING to celebrate?
Don't understand. Why ever not? Classicism? Romaniticism? Academicism? Germaine Greer was at the University of Warwick, near Rugby. There is certainly no consistent thread in her piece, but to give her her due she never allows herself to be pigeon-holed. And she has as low an opinion of Enver Hodge as many members here. So, now we've got the rugby scores and the Thighs of Solomon out of the way, I'd be interested to hear Baz answer DonB's question. One can celebrate events (e.g. anniversaries), or even the lives of people (e.g. Mozart's Bi-centennial celebrations, or the 250th year after Bach's birth); one can even celebrate success, or happiness; one can celebrate winning the lottery (if one does). What I was suggesting (though you may not agree) is that one cannot really celebrate '-isms' such as 'Classicism', 'Romanticism', or even 'academicism' (though one can and should celebrate good things/events/people/artistic achievements etc. that relate with or stem from these 'isms'). Another case in point (I suggested) was that of 'multiculturalism': it is only a label, or 'political stereotype'; it is not an actual thing/event/person. I'm also interested in this 'FACT' of which Baz speaks, and what it's meant to reveal to me about Germaine Greer's supposed lack of intelligence (is it cos she is Austrilian??). Apparently her idea of a causal link is misplaced. I'm not sure what it means to misplace an idea, or a causal link for that matter.
My reply here was not in response directly to Ms Greer - it was clear (from the quoted insert) that I was replying to the writer of message #13. However, as far as the 'fact' is concerned (for which you seek clarification) you might start by looking at the following link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/debates/south_asian/1402252.stmNow that this thread has suddenly become contentious, I shall be making no further contributions to it. Baz |
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« Last Edit: 19:39:15, 25-03-2008 by Baz »
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perfect wagnerite
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« Reply #34 on: 19:44:23, 25-03-2008 » |
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Removed on the basis of second thoughts - and the feeling that the Tebbit test really isn't worth my time or that of others here.
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« Last Edit: 20:41:47, 25-03-2008 by perfect wagnerite »
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At every one of these [classical] concerts in England you will find rows of weary people who are there, not because they really like classical music, but because they think they ought to like it. (Shaw, Don Juan in Hell)
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time_is_now
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« Reply #35 on: 21:18:43, 25-03-2008 » |
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one cannot really celebrate '-isms' such as 'Classicism', 'Romanticism', or even 'academicism' (though one can and should celebrate good things/events/people/artistic achievements etc. that relate with or stem from these 'isms'). Another case in point (I suggested) was that of 'multiculturalism': it is only a label, or 'political stereotype'; it is not an actual thing/event/person. I don't entirely see the logic of the first sentence I've quoted there, but even if it were perfectly clear, the clause in brackets with which you end it seems to suggest that "one can and should celebrate good things ... that relate to or stem from" multiculturalism. In which case, what was it you were objecting to? I can't imagine this 'Tebbit Test' was ever not contentious, was it? |
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
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Swan_Knight
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« Reply #36 on: 21:47:44, 25-03-2008 » |
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I'm totally British (though certainly not proud to be so) and I comprehensively fail the Tebbit test. I've no interest in sport but I strenuously object to the high seriousness in which it is held by my so-called fellow countrymen. As consequence, whenever a British team confronts a foreign team, I always root for the foreign team. My favourite occasion tends to be when England's pack of blundering dullard football players confronts the German team and receive their usual comprehensive thrashing.
Let's face it, Britain hasn't got a clue about sport - of any kind; there's something rather pathetic about wanting to be good at something you have absolutely no natural aptitude for.
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...so flatterten lachend die Locken....
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Don Basilio
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« Reply #37 on: 21:51:25, 25-03-2008 » |
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I'm totally British (though certainly not proud to be so) and I comprehensively fail the Tebbit test. I've no interest in sport but I strenuously object to the high seriousness in which it is held by my so-called fellow countrymen.
Spot on, sk. Couldn't agree more. It's only a game, isn't it? I cannot tell what this love may be. (Operatic quote Tony, reiner and Ruth will recognise.) |
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
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perfect wagnerite
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« Reply #38 on: 22:00:48, 25-03-2008 » |
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It's only a game, isn't it?
Absolutely. Now that I've calmed down a bit, I shall merely reflect that, at this very moment, a Test Match is taking place between my home nation and my wife's. The idea that one can draw any political or social conclusions from either of our reactions to this fact seems to me to be frankly ridiculous. |
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At every one of these [classical] concerts in England you will find rows of weary people who are there, not because they really like classical music, but because they think they ought to like it. (Shaw, Don Juan in Hell)
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martle
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« Reply #39 on: 22:05:09, 25-03-2008 » |
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PW, I'm rather sad that you felt compelled to remove your earlier post, although completely understand why you did. Meanwhile, I shall merely register utter agreement with your present one.  Tebbit is a rabid and sad old freak - let's just leave him alone, shall we? |
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Green. Always green.
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Il Grande Inquisitor
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« Reply #40 on: 22:24:42, 25-03-2008 » |
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Tebbit is a rabid and sad old freak - let's just leave him alone, shall we? Agreed. I'm sure that the 'cricket test' has little real validity or worth, if indeed it ever did. The fact that a Sikh born to Indian Punjabi parents has just taken his 7th 5-wicket haul for England, and is adored by the cricketing public for his sheer enthusiasm for the game, is great for the sport. |
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Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency
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