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Antheil
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« Reply #90 on: 18:46:55, 03-09-2008 » |
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Yes Ron,
But why not post links to CoE or Irish Catholic child abusers? Why just Wales? The Irish have a huge record of abuse, the Welsh don't
Personally, a Priest, gay (male or female) administers the Communion, that is the blood and the body of Christ, that is what we believe in, The Resurrection.
I am happy to receive that that from a Lesbian or a Gay
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Reality, sa molesworth 2, is so sordid it makes me shudder
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harmonyharmony
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« Reply #91 on: 18:53:32, 03-09-2008 » |
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This idea that all Africans are hostile to gays is inaccurate.
No-one's said that they are. The message from the primates of the Church of Africa is fairly uniform though, despite some rebellions. The voice of the Archbishop of Nigeria (remember that there are no gay men in Nigeria) is particularly influential. And of course they resent being patronised. The Church of Africa is growing at an amazing rate while the Church of England is fading away, but there's still a man in Lambeth Palace telling them what to do. The Anglican Communion is on the verge of breakdown because of the appointment of Gene Robinson and of its presiding bishop, Katharine Jefferts Schori. Many primates are refusing to share communion with one another because they say that it has become tainted (which I think is in direct contravention of the Articles of Religion, but never mind that). If the Church of Wales (which may be independent of the Church of England, but is still a member of the Anglican Communion) appoints a gay bishop, all bets are off. compared to the English Civil War and the Dissolution of the Monasteries, it would be a flea bite
Sorry, but I'm not sure how these are comparable. I'm not saying that the Church of England will cease to exist or that liberal Anglicanism is doomed, just that we will be looking at a very different boardgame in the future (and I do believe it's inevitable) and it's a boardgame where diocese will be poaching parish from diocese, vicars will be rebelling and moving camp. It will be messy and horrible and drive even more people away from the church. |
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'is this all we can do?' anonymous student of the University of Berkeley, California quoted in H. Draper, 'The new student revolt' (New York: Grove Press, 1965) http://www.myspace.com/itensemble |
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harmonyharmony
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« Reply #92 on: 18:56:55, 03-09-2008 » |
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Yes Ron,
But why not post links to CoE or Irish Catholic child abusers? Why just Wales? The Irish have a huge record of abuse, the Welsh don't
And the priest in question is English (comes from the same village where I was brought up actually). I think that the point Ron's making is that the timing is unfortunate and will be leapt upon by any number of unprincipled journalists, for whom the words paedophile and gay are interchangeable. Personally, a Priest, gay (male or female) administers the Communion, that is the blood and the body of Christ, that is what we believe in, The Resurrection.
I am happy to receive that that from a Lesbian or a Gay
And (unless I've gone completely barking mad) the Articles of Religion (as I said above) say that it really doesn't matter what you think about the person administering the communion, even if you think that they are unfit to do so. |
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'is this all we can do?' anonymous student of the University of Berkeley, California quoted in H. Draper, 'The new student revolt' (New York: Grove Press, 1965) http://www.myspace.com/itensemble |
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Ron Dough
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« Reply #93 on: 19:06:28, 03-09-2008 » |
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Yes, hh, that was indeed my point: it happened top turn up in the news today, and no matter how Anglo-Catholic and liberal the Church in Wales may be, it will inevitably change the way the media view their forthcoming choice.
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Antheil
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« Reply #94 on: 20:58:55, 03-09-2008 » |
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Jeffrey John may be born in England, but he speaks good Welsh (all Welsh Bishops must speak the language) and is a sound theologian.
So why are "paedophile and gay are interchangeable" being mentioned in relation to a possible Welsh Bishop? He is in a long term civil partnership, if the clergy want to elect him, all well and good.
As to Ron's point about Vicars and porn, they are in the main straight and married.
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Reality, sa molesworth 2, is so sordid it makes me shudder
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harmonyharmony
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« Reply #95 on: 21:16:00, 03-09-2008 » |
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Jeffrey John may be born in England, but he speaks good Welsh (all Welsh Bishops must speak the language) and is a sound theologian.
So why are "paedophile and gay are interchangeable" being mentioned in relation to a possible Welsh Bishop? He is in a long term civil partnership, if the clergy want to elect him, all well and good.
As to Ron's point about Vicars and porn, they are in the main straight and married.
Jeffrey John was born in Tonyrefail. It's Richard Hart that is English. I don't think that John's theological credentials are in question. I would really love to think that the press, and the public's reception of what they're fed by the press, would see beyond prejudice and respect the autonomy of the Church in Wales but I just can't see that happening. Just remember that we're talking about the surreal world of journalism, not about reality. |
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'is this all we can do?' anonymous student of the University of Berkeley, California quoted in H. Draper, 'The new student revolt' (New York: Grove Press, 1965) http://www.myspace.com/itensemble |
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Ron Dough
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« Reply #96 on: 21:16:25, 03-09-2008 » |
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The vicar in the news today was married, Anty: and it's a potential Bishop who happens to be gay we're discussing here, rather than just a Vicar: that raises the stakes considerably. Bearing in mind the splits within the Anglican communion already over an existing gay Bishop there's no way that this can be anything other than a potential flashpoint. I'm sure that I don't need to remind you that different people may have very varied reactions regarding what may be considered to be in bad taste, and just because the general constituency accept something, it doesn't mean that everyone will.
As I said before: it's a very difficult problem, and neither solution will be considered as anything other than a cop-out by the other side and many of those outside.
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richard barrett
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« Reply #97 on: 21:33:03, 03-09-2008 » |
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Just remember that we're talking about the surreal world of journalism, not about reality.
Not to mention the surreal world of the church! |
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martle
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« Reply #98 on: 21:46:32, 03-09-2008 » |
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 You two had better come along with us. It won't hurt, and it'll make the world a much better place. Really. |
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Green. Always green.
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Antheil
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« Reply #99 on: 21:51:05, 03-09-2008 » |
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Just remember that we're talking about the surreal world of journalism, not about reality.
Not to mention the surreal world of the church! Bishops may be surreal and Cardinals even more so, but the Church, if you believe, is the way, the truth and the life. I know I come across as stupid and brainless (it's all an act, honest) but a gay Welsh Bishop, well, I do not see the problem. Jesus wants him for a sunbeam. Who are we to criticise Jesus? |
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Reality, sa molesworth 2, is so sordid it makes me shudder
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harmonyharmony
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« Reply #100 on: 22:13:16, 03-09-2008 » |
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Just remember that we're talking about the surreal world of journalism, not about reality.
Not to mention the surreal world of the church! I actually don't think that the world of the church is very much more surreal than the world of politics, or for that matter, your average (whatever that means) university. There are doctrines, dogmas, bells and smells but unfortunately at the end of the day, it all comes down to power, economics and infrastructure (and the leaden weight of history). |
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'is this all we can do?' anonymous student of the University of Berkeley, California quoted in H. Draper, 'The new student revolt' (New York: Grove Press, 1965) http://www.myspace.com/itensemble |
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richard barrett
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« Reply #101 on: 22:21:41, 03-09-2008 » |
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I actually don't think that the world of the church is very much more surreal than the world of politics, or for that matter, your average (whatever that means) university. There are doctrines, dogmas, bells and smells but unfortunately at the end of the day, it all comes down to power, economics and infrastructure (and the leaden weight of history).
To a nonbeliever, though, the idea that such an extensive institution can, in the 21st century, be in convulsions over whether or not to continue to discriminate against people on the grounds of sexuality is as surreal as all heck. |
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martle
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« Reply #102 on: 22:25:45, 03-09-2008 » |
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There are doctrines, dogmas, bells and smells but unfortunately at the end of the day, it all comes down to power, economics and infrastructure (and the leaden weight of history).
Zackly, hh. And don't forget the silly costumes.   (Just seen Richard's. Zackly.) |
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Green. Always green.
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harmonyharmony
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« Reply #103 on: 22:32:18, 03-09-2008 » |
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...because of course an institution like the government or the army would never tie themselves into this much of a knot over such an issue...  Given however that the Church's apparent guiding principles are to 'Love the Lord thy God with all thy soul and all thy might' and 'Love thy neighbour as thyself' it seems thoroughly ironic that the Anglican Communion is tearing itself apart about discrimination on the grounds of personal issues of sexual orientation. If it was just about that, it might be easier... [sigh] If it was just about giving the various African churches independence then this would again be easier. The Anglican Communion is a whole raft of compromise with a billion different agendas. |
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'is this all we can do?' anonymous student of the University of Berkeley, California quoted in H. Draper, 'The new student revolt' (New York: Grove Press, 1965) http://www.myspace.com/itensemble |
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Don Basilio
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« Reply #104 on: 10:22:07, 04-09-2008 » |
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PLEASE Can this be moved to a seperate thread in the News and Current Affairs section, from antheil first mention of the issue on.
Thank you.
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
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