The Radio 3 Boards Forum from myforum365.com
11:10:26, 03-12-2008 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Whilst we happily welcome all genuine applications to our forum, there may be times when we need to suspend registration temporarily, for example when suffering attacks of spam.
 If you want to join us but find that the temporary suspension has been activated, please try again later.
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  

Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 8
  Print  
Author Topic: Mental Block  (Read 2510 times)
Reiner Torheit
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 3391



WWW
« Reply #15 on: 13:48:58, 14-11-2007 »

Quote
Don't know if you can make things like that happen. But I think it is sometimes worth trying out the possibility that maybe one might have been listening too closely.

Oddly enough I turned the radio on about a month ago, and there was a rambly and very repetitive orchestral work being played, which I vaguely recognised?   At the end they announced it was Bruckner 9.  It is, as DE says, a mental block...  my radar goes off even when he arrives unannounced Sad   (Dare I mention his abilities as an orchestrator again?)

It's not that I actively "dislike" his works... I simply cannot understand the attention that is given to them, and vast resources lavished upon them,  for example, in the Proms each year?    I realise that it's a poor argument to begin comparing their "worth" with that of other C19th symphonists...  but whilst Borodin's rarely played...   
Logged

"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
-  Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
Kittybriton
*****
Gender: Female
Posts: 2690


Thank you for the music ...


WWW
« Reply #16 on: 15:32:19, 14-11-2007 »

Certainly what has happened in my own experience is that my tastes have changed over time. As a teenager I loved the music of Delius. For the most part, Debussy has stayed with me although absence (absinthe?) makes the heart etc.
And as I have mentioned elsewhere, discovering the choral music of Haydn gave me a new appreciation of the "Symphony factory" man.
But so far, Mark Anthony Turnedge and Harrison Birtwistle remain firmly closed books to me. In fact, as the Monty Python "Australian Wines" sketch puts it, very good for laying down and avoiding.
Logged

Click me ->About me
or me ->my handmade store
No, I'm not a complete idiot. I'm only a halfwit. In fact I'm actually a catfish.
BobbyZ
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 992



« Reply #17 on: 18:42:18, 14-11-2007 »

What I find interesting is that certain composers - eg Brahms, Bruckner, Delius, Vaughan Williams - are more susceptible to the mental block syndrome than others. Any thoughts on why that might be?

Berlioz could probably be added to that list ?
Logged

Dreams, schemes and themes
stuart macrae
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 547


ascolta


« Reply #18 on: 20:12:11, 14-11-2007 »

I had a MB for many composers when I was a teenager, including Wagner, Brahms, Mahler, Elgar and a host of others. I've mellowed now (and hopefully grown up a bit!) and have come to appreciate, and in some cases love, composers that were previously anathema to me.

The biggest MB of all remains, however: Mozart. I reached a watershed a couple of years ago when I actually managed to stay in a room for the whole of a Mozart piece, but apart from a few isolated pieces, I really don't see the point of it. Most musicians find this shocking, as Mozart is God to many of them! Most listeners I know don't mind Mozart but aren't passionate about him. (I'm still unconvinced by Schubert, but am starting to find that some things are really amazing gems, so I'm sure there will be a massive conversion some time in the future!)

At the same time, however, I've gone off other composers that I was wild about as a teenager: Shostakovich, for example...I must be quite fickle I think!
« Last Edit: 23:58:16, 14-11-2007 by stuart macrae » Logged
offbeat
****
Posts: 270



« Reply #19 on: 20:25:11, 14-11-2007 »

Although i dont have a particular aversion to any composer i find their are some days when my appreciation of music of any form is only luke warm and  then are other periods  where i find my attention totally absorbed - of course this is not the composers fault but totally due to my mood
 Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
Logged
Donna Elvira
Guest
« Reply #20 on: 09:01:33, 15-11-2007 »

All the above comments have been extremely enlightening so thanks to everyone.  It shows that I'm certainly not alone  Cheesy!

It's interesting that Benjamin Britten's name has been mentioned a few times.  I, too, struggled terribly with his operas until I saw Billy Budd performed in Vienna and London a couple of years ago.  I found the opera incredibly moving and, in parts, spell-binding (probably helped by the fact that the divine Simon Keenlyside was singing the role of Billy each time  Smiley).  I'm hoping that Britten will be less of a closed book to me now.

In terms of opera, then, perhaps a really stunning live performance can make all the difference.  I mentioned earlier that I'd struggled with Pelleas et Melisande but I was put off going to the recent performances at Covent Garden, even though Simon Keenlyside was in it, because (a) the production and costumes looked so awful and (b) I didn't think I'd be convinced by Angelika Kirschlager as Melisande (it's a soprano role and she's a mezzo).
Logged
C Dish
****
Gender: Male
Posts: 481



« Reply #21 on: 10:02:19, 15-11-2007 »


You're not alone by a long chalk, although the names may wll be different in other cases; but I do appreciate the sensitivity of your approach to this.
Having not been on the Beeb boards, I can't see a need for sensitivity, but I'll try to respect it.

Stu, you don't like Schubert? What the h*** is wrong with you?  Grin

I completely understand, though don't share, the lukewarm attitude toward Mozart. Right now I am teaching a course in Classical form and analysis, which is supposed to focus on the work of Mozart, Haydn, and Beethoven. The way it ends up being, Haydn gets 50% of our attention, Beethoven 35%, and Mozart about 15%. This is purely because the innovations of Haydn and Beethoven are easier to describe than those of Mozart.

Mozart gets trotted out for his clear examples (textbook cases of this or that technique), but an appreciation of him doesn't start with form (though of course the 'orthodoxy' of his forms is attributable to the fact that our 'canon' of forms owes him a huge debt of gratitude) but with instrumentation, melodic invention, and more heady topics like "troping" technique. The operas are an important exception -- they are true masterpieces also in their formal construction.

But with Schubert, I don't know where to begin.  Tongue Tongue I have never heard a piece of his that I didn't like. The late piano sonatas (with repeats where required!), the octet, the Cello Quintet, the G major String Quartet, lieder from the vignette ("Wanderers Nachtlied") to the ballad ("Grenzen der Menschheit")... he's a real heavyweight, in a different sense than Bruckner.
Logged

inert fig here
oliver sudden
Admin/Moderator Group
*****
Posts: 6412



« Reply #22 on: 10:25:12, 15-11-2007 »

In terms of opera, then, perhaps a really stunning live performance can make all the difference.

Certainly in terms of opera it would be a really bad idea to give up on a piece you've never actually seen (or even worse, on the composer). I had more or less given up (for the time being!) on various operatic types some years ago because on CD they seemed a bit pointless. Then I found myself the lucky recipient of freebies to see operas by Wagner, Puccini, Glass and Verdi, which was my own breakthrough moment for all of them (er, except Verdi, sorry  Cheesy) - even listening to the CDs afterwards made more sense because I could extrapolate a bit more from the situations I knew.
Logged
Ron Dough
Admin/Moderator Group
*****
Posts: 5133



WWW
« Reply #23 on: 10:31:35, 15-11-2007 »

Apologies to those who have read this before, but I've a theory that whether Britten's music gets hold of you or not has quite a bit to do with when you first hear it, and that the man's own Peter Pan-ish qualities are in some way subsumed into his music, focussing its appeal particularly to the young and young-at-heart. One of the first LPs to arrive in the house in the mid-fifties was the Van Beinum Young Person's Guide and Four Sea Interludes and Passacaglia, and it was the record I loved most as a pre-teen.

I didn't hear any other Britten until I went to grammar school, but the record library there was quite well stocked with his works, and the highlights from Peter Grimes and the Spring Symphony became firm favourites. The War Requiem was premiered during my first year, the records were issued about a year later, and the Christmas following that, they were my main present. His music spoke very directly to me and touched me in a way that little else did (apart from certain other British, and a few French and American composers) in those frankly rather unhappy years away from home as a boarder. It was still being written, too, so there was more to discover: I came to know nearly all of the succeeding works as they appeared, and that increased the excitement.

Since then, there are other composers who may have moved him away from pole position for me, but the music you hear as a teenager tends to stay with you, either as part of the fabric of your being, or else something to kick against: for me Britten is definitely the former. There must be something special about any composer who can create such strong feelings pro and contra.


Incidentally, I've also mentioned before my problems with a high percentage of Mozart's work: I recognise his genius, and find some of the operas extraordinary, but so much of the rest of it seems to me to have gone from initial inspiration to manuscript without any struggle or intervention; it doesn't engage me, and that's what I want from music. My fault, not his, of course.
Logged
Sydney Grew
Guest
« Reply #24 on: 10:45:11, 15-11-2007 »

Debussy very boring (apart from Prelude a l'apres midi d'une faune). . .

Is that une faune de faunes perhaps . . . ?
Logged
Donna Elvira
Guest
« Reply #25 on: 11:09:24, 15-11-2007 »

I agree with Ron regarding the music you hear as a teenager (or much younger, in my case) staying with you.  I was born and brought up with the music of Mozart and, even it seems really cheesy and naff to say so, it is absolutely a part of me which I cannot envisage being without - it's a massive part of my life.  Parental influence was a major factor in my musical upbringing.  My dad was (and still is) a great lover of Mozart's music and I cannot see that either of us could ever be swayed against it.

As a teenager, I foolishly allowed myself to be persuaded that Mahler's music was 'difficult' and I shied away from it without giving it a fair chance.  It was only at university (when I was lucky enough to have a wonderful lecturer who was an expert on it) that my eyes and ears were opened.
Logged
time_is_now
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 4653



« Reply #26 on: 11:54:16, 15-11-2007 »

Debussy very boring (apart from Prelude a l'apres midi d'une faune). . .

Is that une faune de faunes perhaps . . . ?
For once Mr Grew's humour eludes me, although his comment does put me in mind of the programme note in which Paul Griffiths described the Prélude as 'Debussy's portrait of a faun on heat in the heat of the day'.
Logged

The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
oliver sudden
Admin/Moderator Group
*****
Posts: 6412



« Reply #27 on: 12:11:47, 15-11-2007 »



Your faune is ringheinghe.
Logged
roslynmuse
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 1615



« Reply #28 on: 13:30:57, 15-11-2007 »

For what it's worth, my Britten mental block is to do with the memory or idea of certain pieces being so much more potent to me than the experience of hearing them. I am excited more by the thought of seeing and hearing The Turn of the Screw, for example, than actually sitting through it - which indicates there is something strong but not completely realised in there, dramatically and/or musically. My experience of Mozart is exactly as Ron describes - I seem to recall comparing notes on this on another thread. Schubert I am slowly coming to, but it will take a while, I think, to really "get" it. Meanwhile, and off topic, another plug for Hans Zender's take/commentary on Die Winterreise!
Logged
Andy D
*****
Posts: 3061



« Reply #29 on: 11:38:46, 16-11-2007 »

I could mention Bruckner (oops I have done now) but several others have already done so.

Someone with whom I really can't get on is Telemann. Yes, I know he was supposed to have been far more highly regarded than JSB at the time - hard to imagine. I posted elsewhere about a tedious bit of Telemann I recently heard. His music does absolutely nothing for me.
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 8
  Print  
 
Jump to: