IRF, I'm (kind of) glad to hear you say that.  I don't attend nearly as many concerts as I play in, and being an "insider" I may not be able to have an objective view of what it's like to be a punter anyway - but my impression of what it's actually like is close to what you describe.  Of course there are irritating people who are there for the wrong reasons as Ian describes, but I think the musicians are more aware of them than other audience members because they're sometimes among those who attend the receptions and give money (that being said the majority of "friends" I've met give money and attend receptions because they love the music and genuinely enjoy being able to be part of it).

As an audience member I've sometimes overheard conversations that may seem designed to intimidate their neighbours - people talking about the performers as if they know them well, or discussing the last time they heard such-and-such a piece played by so-and-so - but that behaviour is hardly the exclusive preserve of classical audiences.  I saw the Fall a couple years ago, and the guy next to me was ranting about Mark E Smith's latest escapades and non-appearances as if they were best mates.

What I wonder is how art galleries (the larger museums, anyway, if not the specialist boutiques) have managed to dispel that anticipation of exclusivity - or at least provide ways for people to overcome it - and how music venues and groups can learn from that.  Is it all about having a cool café and an amusing gift shop?  Is it because we're so much more a visually-led society than an aurally-interested one these days (this is said a lot but I'm not convinced it's true)?  Or is there something else?

I wonder if it's simply that you can look at a visual artwork for as long or short a time as you like (and do pretty much what you like while you're doing it without impairing anyone else's enjoyment - even if you distract them completely they can just wander off and come back when you've gone), whereas at a classical concert you have to sit down and shut up for as long as it takes (and if you ruin the moment for someone or if they ruin it for you it's not going to come back)?

[ah. snap.]

Sorry for back to back posting...

I also don't think the comparison to designer boutiques is quite right.  Those boutiques (usually) deliberately cultivate a sneering air of exclusivity, because that's an inherent part of their image.  They want people to feel too scared to come in, unless they have the magic combination of confidence in their bank account and an insecurity about their own taste and style.  And people lap it up.  Your average shopper may feel put off by going into those shops, but they'll flock to Topshop selling the latest knockoffs - they may feel too scared to go into Chanel or Prada or whatever, but they still crave the look.

With classical music, we're always looking for ways to cut ticket prices, make concerts appealing - the opposite of what those boutiques are doing - with the possible exception for a certain price band at certain venues (although journalists who only experience gala openings paid for by their employer and then write/broadcast about how expensive and stuffily dressed everyone is ought to damn well do their research and see there are even £15 tickets available at Glyndebourne - it may take a bit of luck to get them but how is that different from Fill-In-The-Blank Band reunion tour selling out within minutes of being posted on the internet).

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Ah, spared the humiliation of back-to-back postings by ranting for too long.

richard and ollie - I'm not sure an individual's experience at a gallery is as private and free-formed as you say.  If you look at people carefully at an exhibit, they definitely look a certain way - their posture, the amount of time they spend in front of each object, how they interact with their companion if they have one.  I think people are more aware of themselves being on display than your posts imply.  (The fact that many single straight women think galleries are theoretically a good place to meet men reinforces that.)  People going for the first time are probably not as comfortable as they would be if looking at art was as truly free an experience as you say.  You can see how awkward some people are - yet they go, and they usually go back.

As for pretentious holding forth - I've overheard some tremendously pompous cr*p at art galleries - far more so than at concert halls - exactly the kind of stuff we imagine puts people off classical music.  And look at the rising popularity of those headphones.  Those are getting better - they actually provide some in-depth intelligent context and analysis of the art more often these days, rather than just pretentious nonsense.  But somehow in the context of an art exhibit it has become OK to admit your ignorance, get the headphones and learn something - yet in music the idea of admitting and overcoming your ignorance is anathema.  Why??  Why  with the visual arts has ignorance become something the viewer admits is his/her "fault" and is willing to overcome it, while in music ignorance is somehow the audience's fault, the venue's fault, the musician's fault, even the bl**dy music's fault - anyone's fault but the potential punter?

(Sorry if the word "punter" offends anyone - I find it a useful catch-all to cover spectators and audiences.)

I think that's exactly it - people are worried by the fact that they're trapped, so if they're bored they have to be bored quietly.  I was brought up going to concerts so I've never felt intimidated by them, but I've experienced the reaction of other people when suggesting taking them along, and you'd think I'd asked them to speak in the House of Commons.  I don't want to force anyone into being bored for an evening of course, but realistically they can just do what everyone else does.

Actually you get much the same reaction from people who have never been to church regularly - it's that not-knowing-what-to-do worry, and a misconception of how formal things are going to be.  I went to a christening recently with a group of friends.  Two of us were brought up in churches, had taught in Sunday school etc and the rest were church-phobic.  The two of us were chatting and laughing quite happily before the service and the rest of them were sat rigidly staring in front of them, trying desperately to 'behave'.  It was hilarious.

That's true - some of that at my own exhibitions.  People will tell you more nonsense about your own stuff than you had ever come close to thinking yourself.  

I'm also sorry if my use of the word "ignorance" strikes the wrong note (and makes people think I'm a snob  )  I think ignorance - or at least the confession of it - is a great thing, because then you are free to do something about it.  I also find that the more I learn, the more there is to learn - learning to me seems like one great path of following one's ignorance.  I hope that explanation clarifies what I mean.  I don't mean to imply that ignorance is a character flaw or a "fault" as such - it just seems many people see it that way when it could so easily be turned into an opportunity if people would just get a little more comfortable with it.

Hmm, ruining moments in concerts - well again maybe that's accepting what live performance is.  A moment may be ruined, but that moment is gone and there are many more to come.  Surely as a performer you've had to learn that, ollie?  If you miss a note or make a mistake however small or huge, it does no good at all to dwell on it.  It's over, it's gone, move on and do your best to recapture the magic.  And while "etiquette" in the concert hall may be a little more strict than in an art gallery, it still exists.  If someone goes to an exhibit and shouts the whole time for a couple hours, that's going to ruin everyone else's experience.  Assuming staff doesn't tell them to shut up or throw them out, most people have a natural time limit in a gallery.  Most tickets for special exhibits do not allow readmission, so you can't go to the café and return to the exhibit once the offenders have gone.  How many people have rolled their eyes at a noisy school group pitching up at a museum at the same time as themselves?

Maybe the word "etiquette" ought to be replaced by "consideration," as that's all it is really - not a set of proscribed rules, just the idea that you ought to be considerate of other people.

ollie - bookshops are another place women imagine they'll meet men.  Neither bookshops nor galleries has worked for me, but that didn't stop me and various friends from trying!

I think the 'couple of hours' bit makes a difference though... only takes a few minutes at the very most to destroy a performance!


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