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Author Topic: What's a "musical snob"?  (Read 5048 times)
richard barrett
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« Reply #300 on: 11:41:07, 04-07-2008 »


  People will tell you more nonsense about your own stuff than you had ever come close to thinking yourself.  Grin
  Roll Eyes
I expect this could apply to contemporary classical/new music as well Grin
How did you guess?  Grin
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IgnorantRockFan
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« Reply #301 on: 11:44:39, 04-07-2008 »

I wonder if the difference lies here: whilst there's 'commercial classical' and 'uncommercial pop', there are almost no avenues for the latter to gain wider exposure, which is not the case for 'uncommercial classical', because there exist institutions who will promote and organise performances of the latter with some (varying) degree of independence of its commercial potential (because the money required to put it on is to some extent guaranteed via subsidy, rather than depending on successful revenue generated through sales, advertising revenue, private sponsorship, etc.)?

However, shows like that of the late John Peel were a subsidised avenue for less 'commercial' popular music to gain some exposure. Shouldn't forget that Radio 1 is just as  non-commercial a radio station as Radio 3 (I think).

This is a point that's very close to my own heart, as much of the 'pop' music I like is decidedly uncommercial. Bands I like won't even be looked at by Radio 1 and have little chance with any of the other 'pop' stations.

I believe it is part of Radio 3's remit to commission a certain amount of new work each year. Where is the equivalent requirement for Radio 1, Radio 2, and even BBC television to do the same for pop music? It's a system of market-place subsidy that actually favours classical music over 'minority interest' pop music, which surely must be completely against the spirit of the BBC charter.

A while ago, fans of a particular band I follow were attempting a 'grass roots' campaign to get the band an appearance on Jools Holland's television programme. The campaign was dropped when investigation revealed how much money it costs to get on the programme. Television (and, we assume, radio) is only for bands with a big marketing budget. Which is completely wrong, in my opinion.

The BBC actually favours new classical composers over new popular artists, by giving a outlet (not to mention subsidies) to the former with no equivalent outlet to the latter.


John Peel was an exception: one man who managed to gain an influential voice, rather than a reflection of Radio 1 policy. In the absence of policy, it was his personal taste that dictated which bands were 'worthy'. He was a law unto himself, and incredibly capricious -- your first album might be the best thing to happen to pop, your second might show you as complete 'sell outs', in his exalted (and unchallenged) opinion and you would never be heard on his show again. Let's face it, Peel was a musical snob of the highest order.

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Allegro, ma non tanto
richard barrett
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« Reply #302 on: 11:50:18, 04-07-2008 »

the awful 'I’ve Never Been To Me' and taking it seriously (snobbish moi, or what?). 

Oh but I do think it deserves to be taken seriously, as a microcosm of everything that's tearjerkingly tawdry about that kind of song - the lyrics ("I've been to Nice/and the isles of Greece... but I've never been to me"), the portentous drumfill before the climactic chorus, the cod emotion plastered throughout... in its way it's a masterpiece, you couldn't parody it if you tried.

Strina, all I can say is my experience of attending and observing people at galleries and museums is completely different from yours!

And
in music the idea of admitting and overcoming your ignorance is anathema. 
I don't really see this either, sorry. Anathema to whom?
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burning dog
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« Reply #303 on: 12:01:13, 04-07-2008 »

"I've been to Nice/and the isles of Greece... but I've never been to me",

I've been trying to write a British version but I 'm struggling to find a place that rhymes with the Isle of Dogs

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Ruby2
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« Reply #304 on: 12:09:51, 04-07-2008 »

"I've been to Nice/and the isles of Greece... but I've never been to me",

I've been trying to write a British version but I 'm struggling to find a place that rhymes with the Isle of Dogs


I've been to Bright'n, the Isle of Wight...
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #305 on: 12:12:27, 04-07-2008 »

"I've been to Nice/and the isles of Greece... but I've never been to me",

I've been trying to write a British version but I 'm struggling to find a place that rhymes with the Isle of Dogs


I've been to Bright'n, the Isle of Wight...
Mersey/Jersey?
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HtoHe
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« Reply #306 on: 12:13:53, 04-07-2008 »

Oh but I do think it deserves to be taken seriously, as a microcosm of everything that's tearjerkingly tawdry about that kind of song

Quite true, Richard - everything that a song like 'Crystal Chandeliers', imo, does right, this song does quite spectacularly wrong.  But I think you know that wasn't the approach taken in the interview!

"I've been to Nice/and the isles of Greece

Unless my hearing is faulty, it's even worse than that - "the isle of Greece".  My sarcastic self keeps wanting to ask 'which one?'.

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IgnorantRockFan
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« Reply #307 on: 12:21:26, 04-07-2008 »

As an audience member I've sometimes overheard conversations that may seem designed to intimidate their neighbours - people talking about the performers as if they know them well, or discussing the last time they heard such-and-such a piece played by so-and-so - but that behaviour is hardly the exclusive preserve of classical audiences.  I saw the Fall a couple years ago, and the guy next to me was ranting about Mark E Smith's latest escapades and non-appearances as if they were best mates.

I can confirm that this [people talking about the performers as if they know them well, or discussing the last time they heard such-and-such a piece played by so-and-so] happens all the times at rock concerts and must be just as intimidating to the uninitiated. If you sit behind me and friends at a Deep Purple or Mostly Autumn gig, the odds are that we've seen half-a-dozen gigs on the same tour already and we're comparing minute differences in the different performances. We must seem like trainspotters  Embarrassed

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Allegro, ma non tanto
martle
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« Reply #308 on: 12:30:25, 04-07-2008 »

I can confirm that this [people talking about the performers as if they know them well, or discussing the last time they heard such-and-such a piece played by so-and-so] happens all the times at rock concerts

First names. I found myself inadvertently referring to Pat Metheny as 'Pat' on another thread. In jazz, one refers to 'Miles'. But we never say 'Ludwig' or 'Gustav'. Why is that? And which practice is the more snobby?  Wink
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Green. Always green.
Antheil
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« Reply #309 on: 12:33:24, 04-07-2008 »

I have to admit that I googled I've never been to me on YouTube as I couldn't bring it to mind.  How about "I've sailed the Irish Sea and been to Dundee" as a British version?

Re IRF's comments about his first attendance at a Concert.  I was exactly like that.  In fact I was terrified (made all the worse by the fact I was going on my own)  I spent about a week worrying what to wear, what would I do if I felt I wanted to cough/sneeze, etc.  In the end it was fine and I was amazed in the interval how many people came up and chatted to me (true to stereotype I had expected it to be 'snobby' and I wasn't part of that world)  I went home exhilarated by the whole experience but it took an awful lot of courage on my part to make that first step into an unknown world.
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Philidor
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« Reply #310 on: 13:13:13, 04-07-2008 »

"I've been to Nice/and the isles of Greece... but I've never been to me",

I've been trying to write a British version but I 'm struggling to find a place that rhymes with the Isle of Dogs



Ffestiniog's...
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martle
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« Reply #311 on: 13:29:33, 04-07-2008 »

Warthogs?
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Green. Always green.
Ruby2
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« Reply #312 on: 13:36:37, 04-07-2008 »

Warthogs?
I've been to Wart. and to Southport, where I've never seen the sea.

 Wink
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Antheil
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« Reply #313 on: 13:45:53, 04-07-2008 »

Warthogs?
I've been to Wart. and to Southport, where I've never seen the sea.

 Wink

I've been to Wales and the Yorkshire Dales,
I've tarried in Buxton and had tea in Thruxton
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Reality, sa molesworth 2, is so sordid it makes me shudder
richard barrett
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« Reply #314 on: 14:31:56, 04-07-2008 »

"I've been to Nice/and the isles of Greece

Unless my hearing is faulty, it's even worse than that - "the isle of Greece"

No, you're right, my memory blotted that detail out as too horrible to remember.
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