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Author Topic: What's a "musical snob"?  (Read 5048 times)
A
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« Reply #315 on: 14:49:40, 04-07-2008 »


One of my best memories of the bit of Primary school support teaching I did was when I took a group of 10 year olds to a Halle concert in Manchester.

They sat mesmorised and just grinned and pointed ( very slightly!) when an unusual instrument played. These were children from a very 'ordinary ' primary school from Manchester and they had only seen my violin and viola as real instruments before this. It was wonderful to see them enjoying it.

When there was obviously going to be an encore I thought they may have had enough so I whispered that there was to be more but it wouldn't be long ... their faces lit up and they sat motionless again. I do hope they go again when they are all 'growed up' !!

A Grin
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #316 on: 16:44:24, 04-07-2008 »


viola as real instruments

How cruelly they had been deceived Wink
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A
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« Reply #317 on: 19:01:18, 04-07-2008 »


Nice one Reiner.. you should know  Grin Wink

A
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Mary Chambers
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« Reply #318 on: 20:04:16, 05-07-2008 »

I'm watching "Last Choir Standing", and feeling distinctly snobby - more about the programme itself than the singers, I think. It's promoting the idea that Russell Watson is an "opera singer", for one thing.

No choir that I've ever sung in has found it necessary to do actions to the music, like in nursery school.
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marbleflugel
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« Reply #319 on: 09:51:26, 06-07-2008 »

It looked naff in the trailer, I admire your courage. The 'actions' bit I guess is somewhat gospel in derivation (this little light of mine etc) but then you get into the realms as Ken Dodd once said of
'producers producing'. This is not my neck of the woods you understand, but  there may be some hope when celebs themselves get fed up with this genre, as they seem to be doing (eg, er, Shane Richie). Similarly I had to endure bits of an edition of 'The Weakest Link' featuring Eastenders actors while tuning in my mums' set for her which was an hour of coarse and shoddily-scripted pre-watershed innuendo, televisual hari-kari. Painful, but maybe something a bit better might emerge from these ashes. This stuff is beneath waffling is it not?
« Last Edit: 09:57:08, 06-07-2008 by marbleflugel » Logged

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Mary Chambers
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« Reply #320 on: 10:48:40, 06-07-2008 »

I watched it because I'm interested in the idea of getting people to sing. If this is all they aim at, though, what's the point? Why aim low? It's patronising. Most of them would get a big shock if they ventured near the audition for a good amateur choir.
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Swan_Knight
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« Reply #321 on: 14:36:53, 06-07-2008 »

I think the general public's idea of a musical snob is someone who would turn their nose up at the idea of the Royal Philharmonic, say, performing a concert of 'the music of Queen'.

Which, I think, would mean just about all of us on this forum!  Wink
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marbleflugel
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« Reply #322 on: 15:57:36, 06-07-2008 »

I'd argue, though I don't particularly like it, for the technical skill of Queen, and pragmatically the RPO has had to do that sort of thing to pay the rent. Perhaps the question is whether a quorum of intimations of skill and subtlety can be injected into the proceedings. Ditto the umpteenth performance of some deemed-warhorse to a largely corporate beano audience or whatever.
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Arnold Brown
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« Reply #323 on: 17:40:44, 06-07-2008 »

I'm watching "Last Choir Standing", and feeling distinctly snobby - more about the programme itself than the singers, I think. It's promoting the idea that Russell Watson is an "opera singer", for one thing.

No choir that I've ever sung in has found it necessary to do actions to the music, like in nursery school.

I think the general public's idea of a musical snob is someone who would turn their nose up at the idea of the Royal Philharmonic, say, performing a concert of 'the music of Queen'.

Which, I think, would mean just about all of us on this forum!  Wink

Which brings me back to the point I was making a few days ago, re McCartney's 'Requiem'.  My 'snobbery' usually takes the form of simply refusing to waste my time on things like "Last Choir Standing" or "The XXXX Orch plays the Music of YYYY"  No doubt I miss some good things which, by definition, I will have dismissed unjustifiably; but one can't listen to everything - and not listening gets me out of being accused of the other kind of snobbery because I won't have an opinion on lots of things I might otherwise disparage.  I will admit to a passing fondness for some of the work of Queen and a respect for the professionalism of the RPO.  But isn't there usually a good reason why pop songs don't get played by symphony orchestras in the first place viz they sound much better as pop songs?  I would have thought such projects as Swan_Knight mentions would be equally repugnant to pop/rock fans as to lovers of orchestral music; indeed their main appeal would be to the surprisingly large MOR audience that filled the RAH for the Michael Ball prom.  That's only a guess and might be completely wrong - does anyone have reliable info on who buys such recordings/attends such concerts?
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IgnorantRockFan
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« Reply #324 on: 17:49:38, 06-07-2008 »

I watched part of 'Last Choir Standing' (by accident, because it was on after Doctor Who) and and couldn't quite believe how the judges were making their choices. They voted in favour of one choir that sounded both out of time and out of tune to me (it was hard to judge how good they really were because the programme didn't show any complete piece of music being sung). They rejected another choir, who sounded beautiful, because their dresses were wrong!  Shocked

The final straw was when they laughed at the choir who sat in a circle and did that harmonic 'meditation'-style chanting. Yes, it was unconventional, but at least they were trying something interesting and it was actually pleasant to listen to -- certainly not worthy of being laughed at  Angry

If lacking all respect for the programme and the judges makes me a snob then so be it, I will wear the label with pride.

Was Russell Watson one of the judges? I didn't recognise him.

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IgnorantRockFan
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« Reply #325 on: 17:56:01, 06-07-2008 »

But isn't there usually a good reason why pop songs don't get played by symphony orchestras in the first place viz they sound much better as pop songs?  I would have thought such projects as Swan_Knight mentions would be equally repugnant to pop/rock fans as to lovers of orchestral music;

This rock fan agrees with you. An orchestra can't reproduce the elements that that made a good song good in the first place. There might be rare exceptions, but as a rule... no. I wouldn't attend such a concert or buy a recording.

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Swan_Knight
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« Reply #326 on: 19:22:07, 06-07-2008 »

But isn't there usually a good reason why pop songs don't get played by symphony orchestras in the first place viz they sound much better as pop songs?  I would have thought such projects as Swan_Knight mentions would be equally repugnant to pop/rock fans as to lovers of orchestral music;

This rock fan agrees with you. An orchestra can't reproduce the elements that that made a good song good in the first place. There might be rare exceptions, but as a rule... no. I wouldn't attend such a concert or buy a recording.



I have fond memories of a TV advert for the first of the LSO's 'Classic Rock' recordings, which featured an orchestral arrangement of the Rolling Stones' 'Paint It Black' - not heard it in ages, but I remember being very disappointed when I heard Jagger and co's original version.

I think there's a huge section of the public - a Nixonian 'silent majority' - who don't actually like music all that much.  Yet they feel the need for it to fill certain uncomfortably 'silent' gaps at dinner parties, etc.  Hence, the popularity of 'bad MOR' (there's actually a lot of 'good MOR' including the complete works of Bacharach and David), orchestral versions of the classics, etc, culminating in those clunky outdoor 'culinary concerts' where the 1812 Overture is a side-order to your picnic.
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MrY
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« Reply #327 on: 20:27:05, 06-07-2008 »

But so much of the NOISE it makes goes (to my ears) something like this:

VOCALS - EEEee--AAAaawww--AAAaaa---EEEeeee...AAAawwww....

INSTRUMENTALS - EEEee--AAAaawww--AAAaaa---EEEeeee...AAAawwww....

PERCUSSIONS - PopPopPopPopPop - BoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoom - PopPopPopPopPop (etc.)


One could imitate much 'new music' and 'world music' with the same onomatopoeia Baz, yeah?


John W
...or pretty much any genre one hadn't listened to closely enough to appreciate the differentiation within it.

It's the 'they all look alike to me' argument. Doesn't really pack much of a punch, if you don't mind me saying.

Maybe I'm coming a bit late to this discussion, just wanted to make this little side remark.

I think many a disgruntledness with the so-called lack of invention, interesting harmony, etc. in pop music comes from listening too closely.  If you're going to listen very attentively to every separate instrument, every melodic line, every harmonic shift, like one would do with a Mahler symphony or a Bach keyboard piece, you're bound to be disillusioned.

I think to appreciate a good pop song you just have to get the general metric/melodic drift and everything just turns out fine!
« Last Edit: 14:24:06, 08-07-2008 by MrY » Logged
Ruby2
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« Reply #328 on: 10:01:25, 07-07-2008 »

I have fond memories of a TV advert for the first of the LSO's 'Classic Rock' recordings, which featured an orchestral arrangement of the Rolling Stones' 'Paint It Black' - not heard it in ages, but I remember being very disappointed when I heard Jagger and co's original version.
Am I a musical snob if I don't like musical hybrids like that?  It seems a particular affliction of choral stars trying to make it big, who can't seem to cope with the idea of producing a CD that only contains music that was intended for their vocal style (religious, classical etc) so they have to chuck in this awful mess of cringeworthy versions of pop stuff.  The Choirboys for instance.  Look at this unforgiveable tracklist:

1 Ecce Homo
2 Tears In Heaven
3 Panis Angelicus
4 Do You Hear What I Hear?
5 Walking In The Air
6 In Paradisum
7 The Lord Bless You And Keep You
8 Pie Jesu
9 Danny Boy
10 The Lord Is My Shepherd (Theme From 'the Vicar Of Dibley')
11 He Ain't Heavy, He's My Brother
12 Corpus Christi Carol
13 O For The Wings Of A Dove
14 Agnus Dei (Lamb Of God)
15 Miserere

Now I'm sorry but can there be any excuse under the sun for track 11?  What moron dreamed that one up?  It's beyond awful, even the thought of it makes me want to pull my ears off.   They can take 2 out as well for me.  And 5.  And 13. And 9.

I'll admit I bought it last year, because I do like Howard Goodall's version of The Lord is My Shepherd, but the whole CD is so tainted with tripe that I burned 3 tracks and gave the rest of it my my mum.

 Angry Angry
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Swan_Knight
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« Reply #329 on: 10:11:41, 07-07-2008 »

That track list made me chuckle, Ruby.

Especially the 'Vicar Of Dibley' parenthesis!  Grin
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