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John W
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« on: 13:19:50, 24-02-2007 » |
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I might be on to something here, maybe not. So I guess we ALL need to have a look at our collections. After listening to the Hatto debate on R3 this morning I thought I'd have a bit of fun and had a brief scan across one of my CD shelves, which holds the less common CD labels, and I picked out a few cheapos that I'd picked up in charity shops on the Pilz label. I thought I would stick them on the PC and see what Microsoft Media Player put up as the titles/artistes. Within minutes I was playing PILZ 44 9071-2 the second CD in the set, Mahler's 5th Symphony, supposedly by Rundfunk Sinfonie Orchester Ljubljana, cond. Anton Nanut. (Radio Symphony Orchestra) What does Media Player say? The Royal Philharmonic Orchestra. Oh look, Anton Nanut has recently recorded 150 CD's http://www.nanut.com/What do you think? If anyone had the RPO we can compare bits. John W |
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Milly Jones
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« Reply #1 on: 18:10:41, 24-02-2007 » |
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So I guess we ALL need to have a look at our collections. I must admit I had the same thought this morning when I listened to the programme. This is not going to be the first time something like this has been perpetrated is it? It shakes your confidence a bit. This Hatto discovery may well open a huge can of worms. |
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We pass this way but once. This is not a rehearsal!
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Ron Dough
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« Reply #2 on: 18:20:48, 24-02-2007 » |
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More of a tinlet than a huge can, Milly, at least so far as Western European and American labels are concerned. Come to think of it, the Eastern pirates are so nonchalant about copying that they're quite happy to issue their counterfeits with the actual performer's names on, and, more often than not, even the original artwork....
BTW, my pitifully tiny collection of two Pilzes are exactly what they say on the tin, when run through the Gracenote database.
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Tam Pollard
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« Reply #3 on: 18:28:12, 24-02-2007 » |
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But has it. After all, to get positive match on itunes all that is needed is for the CDs to have the same number and length of tracks. For example, last night I put on the Brahms German Requiem from Giulini/VPO and was told it was Shaw in Atlanta. Given the labels involved (Telarc and DG), and the artists, I do not believe that any funny business is going on here. Bear in mind, all the discs in question have been subjected to much more rigourous study than simply insertion into a computer.
regards, Tam
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Ron Dough
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« Reply #5 on: 18:59:37, 24-02-2007 » |
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John W
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« Reply #6 on: 19:04:30, 24-02-2007 » |
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Yes, I listed that first in my previous posting but isn't that the issue date on the budget label? Some of the budget CD's are imported from Europe. It's hard to find dates and even location of the Shipway RPO recording. Was it always destined for budget release? There may be other RPO Mahler 5's but I haven't looked yet. John W |
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Ron Dough
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« Reply #7 on: 20:13:00, 24-02-2007 » |
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Location was almost certainly the old CBS studios in Whitworth St, in common with the rest of the RPO series, which ran to well over 100 titles. They were all made for RPO's own super-budget label distributed by the initially very successful Tring Records, but hit hard when Tring ran into difficulties. Since the first batch of titles seems to have been issued in the early mid-nineties, an earlier date for the Mahler 5 would be unlikely. My copy, along with a Shipway Shosty 10 on the same label, and most of the other titles, including a Handley Planets which blew the roughly contemporary HvK DG digital remake out of the water at less than half the price, are still in a packing case in one of two locations a few miles from here.....
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John W
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« Reply #8 on: 21:41:55, 24-02-2007 » |
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Ron, So, when Media Player says the Mahler 5 is RPO, is it not reading that data off the CD? Can't find much else about Frank Shipway and the RPO. Their official history pages don't mention him: http://www.rpo.co.uk/about_conductors_p.aspIs he part of their dark history they'd rather forget? Was he just hired as guest conductor to record a bunch of budget CDs? John W |
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Ron Dough
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« Reply #9 on: 22:36:44, 24-02-2007 » |
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We need a member of the RPO to confirm this, but I rather think he stood in for sessions already booked where an intended conductor had to cry-off: the RPO/Tring sessions generally had quite big-name conductors (or at the very least regular recorders) amongst them Mackerras (Sibelius 2, Shostakovich 5) Menuhin (2 Elgar discs) Temirkanov, Leppard, Handley, Wordsworth, Seaman and Carl Davis. I'm having to do this from memory, as that particular box would have been packed sometime before the start of 2003. and won't have been opened since, but there are plenty more names which elude me for the present. Many of the recordings are now appearing on the German Membran label, and since they were all recorded with at least 20-bit resolution (very new and forward-thinking at the time) many have subsequently been reissued as SACDs.
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Ron Dough
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« Reply #10 on: 22:41:40, 24-02-2007 » |
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"Who's Frank Shipway? He's at the head of the National Symphony Orchestra of the RAI, Italy's leading symphony orchestra, a student of Barbirolli and of Karajan. There's a feeling of rightnesss in the first two movements; the third is rather faster than I'm used to, but still good, very very very Viennese. His Scherzo coda, for example, is truly breathtaking, where he does one of those "Why hasn't anyone else thought of it?" things. Amazing recording, fantastic playing!" Quoted from http://inkpot.com/classical/mahsym5r2.html |
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John W
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« Reply #11 on: 00:57:26, 25-02-2007 » |
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Ron,
Thanks for that link which gives the timing of Shipway's recording as 73'41". The Pilz recording is 63'16".
So was there an earlier RPO Mahler 5.
John W
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Woodbine
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« Reply #12 on: 11:11:47, 25-02-2007 » |
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TtN last year broadcast Shipway conducting Brahms sym.1 with an orchestra from, I think, Slovenia ( could be Croaita). The orchestra was not the greatest but it was a very, very good performance.(IMO)
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John W
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« Reply #13 on: 11:32:09, 25-02-2007 » |
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And Rundfunk Sinfonie Orchester Ljubljana, cond. Anton Nanut. (Radio Symphony Orchestra) is in Slovenia too?
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Woodbine
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« Reply #14 on: 13:12:47, 25-02-2007 » |
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John W--Googled Shipway - It says he has been chief conductor of Zargreb Phil. since 2000 but I could not find any cds of this partnership. Nanut has web bio. and many cds and seems real enough.
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