I'm interested in a discussion about improvisation as an over hyped aspect of jazz. I went through a phase where I considered and researched the identity jazz has, in which improvisation has a central role. It is indeed emphasised more than with other music, though as a general flavour more than a distinct taste. Bach did it, especially, I understand, in his own time; interesting that it's done less so now, which is thus not authentic to the ideas of the composer. Is there anyone performing Bach improvisation? - there might be, I don't know, and it would be interesting to know about such music.

And the Indians do it, with their music. For me, the closest we have to sitar improvisation in the accepted parameters of jazz is maybe Jarrett. Different instrument, different sound, of course, but the overall  soundscape 'architecture' seems similar to me with Jarrett and his marathon improvised concerts. In both cases the musicians work quite deliberately with altering mood, it seems to me, rather like a shamanic practice. I find with Jarrett at his best, there's a kind of deliberate pursuit of pleasurable rapture.

I think there most certainly is a musical and creative freedom in jazz unlike other music, but Derek Bailey in his book on improvisation suggests Bach, sitar and jazz  - as I recall - almost sit in the same genre. I can understand that conceptually, but musically I find it a little nonsensical.

Bailey noted how 'performance' music contradicts music, as such, which essentially rests on and derives from a creative impulse. That's a fine idea, but at some point creativity has to crystallise into something in the same way all the notes and scribblings of Shakespeare culminated in his plays. So maybe this notion of 'improvisation' is partly just an idea, rather than musical fact.

Ooh ta, I'll check that out.

Improvisation? Check this out instead. Worth it for the title track alone. Scroll down to sample 3 ....
http://www.cduniverse.com/search/xx/music/pid/1071101/a/Mirror+Man+Sessions.htm
Also available at Amazon
 

Yes the idea of Bach improvisation is to me like the language of Dutch - haven't a clue. Though I'd probably get a feeling for it if I listened more, as I have with jazz. In fact I suspect feeling is paramount, rather than thinking; can't see how it could be any different. And there's probably a different improvisation idiom with different kinds of music: because while using the same approach, you are nonetheless working with a different 'language'.

On that matter actually, I noticed after being interested in jazz for a while I was listening more closely to all music. I suspect there's something similar with classical, where again fans listen more closely (compared to rock fans) because of the nature of the music and what it offers.

She certainly likes to keep the sustain-pedal floored, doesn't she?    56 seconds was as much as I wanted of that

Ta chaps, that saves me listening 

I studied for a year with the Czech composer Petr Eben when he sat in for my college's regular tutor. At the Christmas student party that year, he sat at the piano and asked for someone to name a simple tune. I think it ended up being the National Anthem. Then he asked for names of composers, and for each one he improvised a near-perfect pastiche variation. AND he did a fugue for 'Bach'. They are out there, these guys!

Er, yes, but there must be others, tinners!