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trained-pianist
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« Reply #135 on: 06:33:05, 25-08-2008 » |
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I discovered recently that the oldest text in Sansrit (or some religious texts that are the same for Indians and Buddhist) are in Irish language.
Is it possible or am I mixed up again? I remember it was some Celt language.
I was so surprise.
Does anybody know what Romanian language is? I know that tp's parents were from Romania and there are many similarities with italian. The words like good morning or good evening are almost the same. I can hear it when they sing in opera duets etc.
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« Last Edit: 06:50:28, 25-08-2008 by trained-pianist »
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trained-pianist
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« Reply #136 on: 07:14:27, 25-08-2008 » |
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For all who want to, or need to, learn another language..
...do you think you ever 'get there'? Do you ever stop learning?
When we stop learning we die. |
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harmonyharmony
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« Reply #137 on: 11:22:51, 30-08-2008 » |
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You mean that no matter how many of a thing that you are trying to count it always comes out as 144? That could make life quite easy on the pedagogical front, but rather tricky when it comes to such delicate subjects as dosage or inventory or recipe (take 144g of rice, add 144ml of stock and 144g of onions. Cook for 144 minutes until burnt. Serves 144). The present tense in English may not have many variations in ending, but when do you say "I write", when "I am writing" or "I do write"? I know the difference by instinct. Heaven help anyone trying to learn any rules.
There are of course rules, but we never learn them explicitly. This means that (a) Englissh speakers often have the panic you describe when dealing with more systematically-organised languages and (b) the general decline in English grammar which we're often bemoaning here doesn't really happen in for example German, where you need to know the rules to get anywhere at all. Having said that, I think it's the irregularities of spelling and pronunciation which most fox people learning English as a second language. I have to say that I don't have that panic and that German and Latin were the languages to which I took in a similar manner in which a duck takes to water. I haven't spent enough time working out the rules for English as would make me happy though. It's on the 'to do' list. |
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'is this all we can do?' anonymous student of the University of Berkeley, California quoted in H. Draper, 'The new student revolt' (New York: Grove Press, 1965) http://www.myspace.com/itensemble |
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Robert Dahm
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« Reply #138 on: 11:47:46, 30-08-2008 » |
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I have to say that I don't have that panic and that German and Latin were the languages to which I took in a similar manner in which a duck takes to water. I haven't spent enough time working out the rules for English as would make me happy though. It's on the 'to do' list. There's a profound elegance to Latin. I love the way that the absence of such things as articles, and the manner in which case is used, emphasised the resonating space between words. Maybe I'm just imagining it.  None of my foreign languages are as good as I'd like. I'm trying to get serious about German and French at the moment, as they seem to be the two languages I'd have the most immediate use for. Then I need to tidy up my Latin, and get around to ancient Greek. I figure I'll need to learn Italian at some point, as there are certain 16th and 17th Century sources I'd like to read, but it's not a language I feel much affinity for. |
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trained-pianist
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« Reply #139 on: 14:27:20, 30-08-2008 » |
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Robert Dahm,
I have friends that know many languages, while I only know one.
They usually have two languages because they lived in both countries.
Then they add related languages.
Once you know German and a bit of French (and Engslish of course) it becomes easy, because the knowledge of other languaged will help in learning the others.
I was disappointed that my kind of knowing two languages did not help in learning Welsh. In fact it was no use what so ever. I was disappointed.
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #140 on: 07:37:02, 01-09-2008 » |
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..the complex structure arises from its origins in Central Asia, I believe? One myth dispelled though - the alleged similarity to Finnish is clearly a remote one - "Went to Helsinki for a week, couldn't understand a bloody word of it!" opined my Hungarian chum...
An amateur linguist writes: they're both "Finno-Ugric" languages, so they're related to a similar kind of degree as English, French and Sanskrit (all being "Indo-European" languages). I think Reiner's point was that it's more a matter of English-Sanskrit than English-French in the case of Finnish and Hungarian...  On the counting subject, has anyone brought up Japanese yet? The numbers appear to have different endings depending on what it is you're counting. So my Langenscheidt German-Japanese phrasebook tells me anyway. -nin (people) -hiki (four-footed (not large) animals) -satsu (books) -hai (cups or glasses) -mai (flat objects - paper etc) -hon (long objects - pens, cigarettes etc) -dai (vehicles, machines) Alas it doesn't tell me what the suffix is for four-footed large animals which is a shame because I'm sure there are situations in which one would need to know it in a hurry. |
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increpatio
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« Reply #141 on: 00:29:09, 03-09-2008 » |
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On the counting subject, has anyone brought up Japanese yet? They have not. I learned how to count one of the categories once, but I couldn't tell you which without looking them up. |
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increpatio
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« Reply #142 on: 15:25:00, 05-09-2008 » |
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I was amused to find out today that Russian allows for 'grammatically correct' double-negatives
я ничего не знаю о футболе - means "I don't know anything about football"...more literally though..."I don't know nothing about football"... (word for word: "I nothing no know about football").
Do any other languages have this sort of stuff counted as officially 'grammatically correct'? I don't think that German, for one, has.
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time_is_now
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« Reply #143 on: 15:27:41, 05-09-2008 » |
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Do any other languages have this sort of stuff counted as officially 'grammatically correct'? Yes. The most commonly cited example is French, although it depends whether you understand a construction like 'ne ... rien' or 'ne ... personne' as a single (split) or a double negative. Certainly in Spanish I don't think two negatives in a sentence would ever be understood as having anything other than a reinforcing function. |
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
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trained-pianist
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« Reply #144 on: 15:37:30, 05-09-2008 » |
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I used to say phrases like the following in English:
I don't know nothing about football. I also had fondness for phrases like:
I don't must.
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Robert Dahm
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« Reply #145 on: 15:55:36, 05-09-2008 » |
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I don't must.
That formulation is so 'incorrect' that it's precisely the sort of thing that would happen in English! In fact, I find it so ridiculously endearing that I'm going to appropriate it for my own personal use. You don't must criticise me  . (Incidentally, did you use this to mean 'I must not', or 'I don't have to'? What is the phrase in Russian that you were attempting to re-create? Russian is a language that I know so little about - I've very much appreciated the tidbits shared by both t-p and Reiner.) |
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trained-pianist
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« Reply #146 on: 16:01:14, 05-09-2008 » |
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The word must and have to is the same word in Russian.
I tried to say: I don't have to (go there or something). But I kept saying: I don't must. It was the first six months after we came to the USA.
We stayed with a nice English family with two children. They tried to encourage me to speak and did not correct me much. But the lady told my not to say: Don't must because children have started to repeat that.
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Robert Dahm
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« Reply #147 on: 16:07:25, 05-09-2008 » |
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We stayed with a nice English family with two children. They tried to encourage me to speak and did not correct me much. But the lady told my not to say: Don't must because children have started to repeat that.
 You should have kept at it - you could have started a whole new dialect. |
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trained-pianist
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« Reply #148 on: 16:14:34, 05-09-2008 » |
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Is there any difference between: I musn't and I don't have to.
They tought us that I must not is stonger.
I think we just started a trend in English language, Robert Dahm.
We don't must criticise Robert Dahm. We promise.
I have written it in front of me on a piece of paper now.
Sorry, Mr Robert Dahm.
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increpatio
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« Reply #149 on: 16:53:01, 05-09-2008 » |
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I don't must.
That's very funny t-p. You should have kept at it - you could have started a whole new dialect.
Is there any difference between: I musn't and I don't have to.
I mustn't means that you absolutely will not or can not do it. To say that you don't have to means that it is not necessary that you do it...they have different meanings. |
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