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Author Topic: Ulysses - James Joyce  (Read 1578 times)
Morticia
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« on: 08:54:47, 15-09-2008 »

The following. post has been moved from the the Good Morning thread.

I am beginning to read Ullyses. I am trying to understand what edition I got. It looks to be a good edition of 1984. The editor is Hans Walter Gabler, supported by an international team of collaborators and advisors, arrived at its text. It turns out that copyright protection for the first-edition text of Ulysses has expired in most of the world (that is in 1986).
This critical and synoptic edition of Ulysses needs to be understood in terms of the assumptions and methods of most Anglo-American editing today. In this method an editor studies all the relevant surviving documents for the work in notes, drafts, manuscripts, typescripts and proofs that are extant, plus printed versions in which the autor was involved.
Joyce wrote Ulysses episode by episode, and the process is almost entirely one of growth and expansion. After compiling notes and rough drafts, Joyce brought each of the eighteen episodes to a temporary finish in a final working draft that he gave to a typist.

However already on the first page the plump Buck Mulligan intoned: Introibo ad altare Dei.
This is Latin. Is if from Latin Mass?


For some reason my friend wants me to start reading from the episod of a Musical. There is a lot of music there.
I also know that Stephen Dedalus is Joyce himself.
He appears on the first page.
I also know that Dedalus invented wings for Ikarus in Greek mythology.
I will have to ask my friend the Latin phrase and the meaning of the wordcorpuscles.

At least I can start asking questions.
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harmonyharmony
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« Reply #1 on: 09:01:54, 15-09-2008 »

However already on the first page the plump Buck Mulligan intoned: Introibo ad altare Dei.
This is Latin. Is if from Latin Mass?

Apparently it's one of the antiphons used in the Roman Catholic mass. (I'm referring to this article from Wikipedia). It's part of a series of rituals that the priest carries out before going up to the altar and seems to be a prayer for the clergy alone. I imagine this is why Buck Mulligan intones it as he is shaving.

I also know that Stephen Dedalus is Joyce himself.
He appears on the first page.
I also know that Dedalus invented wings for Ikarus in Greek mythology.

Joyce is also Bloom...

Daedalus is one of those characters that is (for me at least) endlessly fascinating.
He builds the bull which enables Pasiphae to mate with the black bull of Poseidon.
He then builds the labyrinth to incarcerate the offspring born of this mating (the Minotaur).
He is then imprisoned at the centre of the labyrinth so that the secret of how to escape from it will never be discovered.
He then builds a set of wings so that both he and his son, Icarus, can escape.
As everyone knows, Icarus can't get the hang of regulating his altitude and ends up plummeting to his death.
Daedalus survives.

So this means that the surname has so many connotations. Is Ullyses a labyrinth? Who or where is the minotaur (I suppose the equivalent might be the cyclops in the pub)? The story of Minos and Daedalus is full of father/son, father/daughter, mother/son relationships: Minos to Ariadne, Pasiphae to the Minotaur, Daedalus to Icarus, Venus to Lucifer. It is implied at various points that Stephen sees Bloom as some kind of surrogate father and Joyce had problematic relationships with his own son and daughter (and there are a few connotations that could be drawn from the story of Daedalus?).

I've also read somewhere (though I forget where) that an aspect of the Dedalus/Bloom relationship is actually reflecting the relationship of Beckett to Joyce.

Stephen Dedalus first appears in A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man, which was my first experience of Joyce (aged, I think, 16 or so). I loved it then but I wonder whether I'd love it if I read it again.

It's also over 10 years since I read Ullyses. Time to go back I think. But not yet.
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harmonyharmony
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« Reply #2 on: 09:06:23, 15-09-2008 »

It turns out that copyright protection for the first-edition text of Ulysses has expired in most of the world (that is in 1986).

I'm not sure, but I think that changes in copyright law mean that the text is under copyright (in the UK at least) until 75 years after the author's death (i.e. 2011). I'm ready (and quite happy) to be corrected on that one!

and the meaning of the wordcorpuscles.

Try looking here. The 17th century scientist Robert Boyle used the term to describe what we now call atoms.
« Last Edit: 09:17:26, 15-09-2008 by harmonyharmony » Logged

'is this all we can do?'
anonymous student of the University of Berkeley, California quoted in H. Draper, 'The new student revolt' (New York: Grove Press, 1965)
http://www.myspace.com/itensemble
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« Reply #3 on: 09:12:43, 15-09-2008 »

The internet now is very useful tool. I keep forgetting.

Further progress in the understanding of atoms did not occur until the science of chemistry began to develop. In 1661, natural philosopher Robert Boyle published The Sceptical Chymist in which he argued that matter was composed of various combinations of different "corpuscules" or atoms, rather than the classical elements of air, earth, fire and water.

As copyright is concerned it says here: This is crucial now that the copyright protection for the first-edition text of Ulysses has expired in most of the world and will end soon in the United States, with the result that many editions are becoming available.

It is written in Afterward by Michael Groden in August of 1993.

Thank you. I at list made a small step toward reading this book.
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harmonyharmony
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« Reply #4 on: 09:25:17, 15-09-2008 »

Yes. EU copyright law seems to have changed since then. I don't know enough about this to quote chapter and verse but it seems to have happened sometime around 1998. It's not 75 years though, it's 70 which means that the copyright on Ulysses in 2006. Gosh. Is that true? Can I now set Joyce without fear of reprisals?

This summary might help you work out what's going on and give you some of the references, but don't get hung up on it too much. I found it much better to just let the words wash over me and only worry about what had happened after I had read it.
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'is this all we can do?'
anonymous student of the University of Berkeley, California quoted in H. Draper, 'The new student revolt' (New York: Grove Press, 1965)
http://www.myspace.com/itensemble
Ron Dough
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« Reply #5 on: 09:29:42, 15-09-2008 »

This is precisely why I suggested starting with Portait of the Artist as a Young Man, t-p: Joyce's experiments with narrative language begin there, and it's a shorter and (comparatively) easier book to assimilate than either Ulysses or Finnegan's Wake. Don't forget that you really need a working knowledge of Homer's Odyssey to appreciate the narrative structure of Ulysses, too: there's a constant interplay between the the two plots, often of a parodic nature: the very name of Joyce's book itself being but the first reference to this.
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harmonyharmony
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« Reply #6 on: 09:55:21, 15-09-2008 »

This has inspired me to read both Portrait of an Artist and Ulysses again before finally having a go at Finnegans Wake. Both books (i.e. tPoaAaaYM and U) are in another place, but when I'm next there I'll pick them up.

I'm not so sure that Portrait is entirely necessary to introduce you to Ulysses. It would be a smoother run-up for you possibly, but there's still a considerable bump going from one to the next! It's definitely worth brushing up on your Odyssey to get the most out of Ulysses though.

My edition of Ulysses had a chart in the front that I found particularly useful which summarised the time, location (within Dublin), Homeric episode (within the Odyssey, colour and organ to which each chapter was linked. I felt slightly ashamed that I was cheating by doing this...
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'is this all we can do?'
anonymous student of the University of Berkeley, California quoted in H. Draper, 'The new student revolt' (New York: Grove Press, 1965)
http://www.myspace.com/itensemble
Ron Dough
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« Reply #7 on: 10:05:42, 15-09-2008 »

I'm not saying that Portrait is necessary to introduce a reader to Ulysses, hh, but I am suggesting that it's an easier way into Joyce, and his stylistic games.
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harmonyharmony
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« Reply #8 on: 10:25:53, 15-09-2008 »

Sorry Ron... Put it down to not enough breakfast and an ingrained reaction against 'prescriptive' reading at school!
I have never read Jane Eyre because people told me I should... Should really grow out of that...
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'is this all we can do?'
anonymous student of the University of Berkeley, California quoted in H. Draper, 'The new student revolt' (New York: Grove Press, 1965)
http://www.myspace.com/itensemble
Ron Dough
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« Reply #9 on: 10:39:50, 15-09-2008 »

The fact that Joyce invents, reinvents and reconfigures language almost continually makes him a daunting enough prospect for most native speakers of English, let alone someone who still appears to be acquiring it, hh.

I'm rather mystified why t-p's Irish friends should have encouraged her to set off on such an enterprise as reading Finnegan's Wake when it seems likely to involve a learning curve similar to that of a rocket trajectory.
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trained-pianist
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« Reply #10 on: 10:51:39, 15-09-2008 »

I can not answer this question. (He actually just dropped clavinova part of Strauss's Brother my, Champain and something else here. We have a dress rehearsal tonight. Tomorrow is the same and then three days of performance. I have to accompany my violinist in three pieces. The difficult one is Brahms' Scherzo. I don't think I need this performance, but what can I do.)

I will try to read one more page. It is not that difficult so far. I don't want to start from the middle. May be my friend's idea is not that good.

Thank you very much for your help.
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pim_derks
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« Reply #11 on: 11:26:47, 15-09-2008 »

The fact that Joyce invents, reinvents and reconfigures language almost continually makes him a daunting enough prospect for most native speakers of English, let alone someone who still appears to be acquiring it, hh.

I first read Ulysses in English when I was sixteen. Embarrassed
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Ron Dough
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« Reply #12 on: 11:34:34, 15-09-2008 »

Pim, judging by your command of English now (and taking into account your nation's generally accepted expertise in foreign languages) I'm guessing that your grasp of English at sixteen was perhaps considerably more advanced than that of many British readers of the same age.  Wink
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #13 on: 11:35:27, 15-09-2008 »

I still haven't read it  Embarrassed
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Morticia
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« Reply #14 on: 11:55:38, 15-09-2008 »

Don't worry, Ollie. I won't tell anyone. 
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