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Author Topic: Ulysses - James Joyce  (Read 1578 times)
Robert Dahm
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« Reply #45 on: 15:09:42, 16-09-2008 »

I would hold Nabokov to be as 'musical' with words as Joyce, although in a very different way. Beckett too, in an equally different way again.
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trained-pianist
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« Reply #46 on: 12:17:34, 17-09-2008 »

I think you are right, Robert Dahm.

I had help with my two first pages yesterday.
I did not understand that Mulligan lived in a tower. There are many towers here that were built for protection against French invaders. They are in a round shape because the bombs (or what ever they are called) bounce off the round shaped objects (as opposed to streight or square objects).
Joyce did not invent his characters. Mulligan was his friend. He became famous surgeon and writer. His name is Oliver St. Joahn Gogerty.

Hains was a friend Joyce used to rent this tower with. He was drunk one night, started to shut from his rifle and scared Joyce very much. Joyce found himself another place to stay.

My friend recommends that I should read chapter on Sirens instead of going page by page.
« Last Edit: 08:09:52, 18-09-2008 by trained-pianist » Logged
Robert Dahm
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Posts: 197


« Reply #47 on: 12:31:39, 17-09-2008 »

The sirens chapter truly is remarkable, but so is just about every other chapter!

The Sirens chapter has the advantage, though, of being quite short (if I remember correctly - I'm too lazy to go and get it down off the shelf...), and there's no reason that you couldn't read it and then go back again to where you were. Like much (all?) of the rest of the book, though, it is rather densely referential - does the edition you are reading have good/useful footnotes to help you find your way?
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Sydney Grew
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« Reply #48 on: 12:37:33, 17-09-2008 »

I'm too lazy to go and get it down off the shelf...

Could this be put down to a less than adequate diet?
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trained-pianist
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« Reply #49 on: 12:46:16, 17-09-2008 »

My book has afterward, but I can not find any comments on things that I don't know.
Before my friend left he started to read a little bit of chapter 11 (Sirens).
If you read the text like poetry it sounds like a horse galloping (or whatever horses do) and then they make that noise sometimes, like breathing out.
I like how Joyce is inventing new words (or rather sounds).
Imperthnthn thnthnthn
Chips, picking chips off rocky thumbnail, chips.
Horrid! And gold flushed more.
A husky fifenote blew.
Blew. Blue bloom is on the
Goldpinnacled hair.


I will need some help with that, but for now I think may be Joyce was a foreigner like me. He seems to find the words that sound the same, but mean different things and have different spelling.
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Robert Dahm
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« Reply #50 on: 14:16:12, 17-09-2008 »

I'm too lazy to go and get it down off the shelf...

Could this be put down to a less than adequate diet?


Certainly not, Member Grew. Rather, our manservant is presently unwilling to get it down for us. We have had to cut back his pay, you see. The crunch is hitting us all, is not it?
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time_is_now
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« Reply #51 on: 15:02:03, 17-09-2008 »

You allow your servant to read Ulysses? Shocked

(Apologies if this reference to British legal history is impenetrable from your side of the globe, Robert.)
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
trained-pianist
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« Reply #52 on: 15:10:37, 17-09-2008 »

Thank you, Robert Dahm and t-i-n.

This is people looking at viceregal procession. It is very funny. People are gosiping: Is that her? asked miss Kennedy.
Miss Douce said yes, sitting with his ex, pearl grey and cau de Nil.
-exquisite contrast, miss Kennedy said.
Look at the fellow in the tall silk.
Who? Where? gold asked more eagerly.
In the second carriage, miss Coucen's set lips said....

I am very happy because I am on the next page now. This sounds alsmost like a page from Boris Godunov when people are forced to Heil a new Zar and they don't know why they were called and what they are doing.
Some are asking the others:Why are we  here?

"She laughed:
O wept! Aren't men frightful idiots?
With sadness. "


Now I can stop because I have two pages to discuss with my friend. If I continue to read a little at a time like today I shall be pleased.

Thank you Robert Dahm once again for your help. Because of you I did not stop at the 1, 5 page level and now am on the third page instead.
« Last Edit: 07:21:21, 18-09-2008 by trained-pianist » Logged
Robert Dahm
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« Reply #53 on: 00:04:12, 18-09-2008 »

You allow your servant to read Ulysses? Shocked

(Apologies if this reference to British legal history is impenetrable from your side of the globe, Robert.)

I did, in fact, catch that reference,but only because somebody had mentioned this earlier in the thread. Wink
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trained-pianist
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« Reply #54 on: 07:17:57, 19-09-2008 »

I am on to the next page.
Bloowho is going by Moulang's pipes shop (shop behind hotel), he has love letters in his breast. He waks by Wine's antiques  (jewish antique dealer. One of Wine family is Loreta Wine, who was a pianist). He passes advertizement for cigaretts Raoul.
The man in a hotel who has to clean the boots brings tea to barmaids. He is upset, bangs cups on the counter. He doesn't like to serve to barmaids.
Miss Kennedy finds is offensive when he bangs his tray of china on the counter.
Miss Douce leaving her spying point wants to find out what it the noise.
Your boyfriend?
No reply.
I will complain to Mrs de Massey if I hear any more of your impertinent insolence.
They drink their tea, talking about mineral water and sun tan.
Miss Douce half stood to see her skin in the bar mirror.
She is going to put glycerine on her burned skin.
« Last Edit: 18:18:44, 19-09-2008 by trained-pianist » Logged
time_is_now
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« Reply #55 on: 17:46:41, 19-09-2008 »

size=1pt]but only because somebody had mentioned this earlier in the thread[/size]
Ah, no wonder it was in my mind! Roll Eyes Undecided
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
trained-pianist
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Posts: 5455



« Reply #56 on: 07:28:21, 21-09-2008 »

Next page was difficult to understand. I was all right until I got to the paragraph when Bloom has his lunch. He is reading news paper (perhaps about people who died). Hi reads the name of Aaron Figatner. He always associates his name with Gathering figs. Next sentence about Huguenot name I could not understand. I did not know that after the war between protestants and Catholics in France many Huguenots (protestants) moved to Ireland. There are several cemeteries of Huguenots in Dublin. One of the prominent names is La Touche (one of the La Touche women was a student of Chopin, but that was before). Then waitress dressed in blue (like virgin Mary statues) with dark eyes came with his lunch. She was very good looking and that attracts clients. Dedalus and his student son came for their lunch too (Dedalus, John is Joyce's father and Dedalus Stephen is Joyce himself). Good looking waitresses bring those rakes of fellows in.
Joyce writes like if he is holding the camera and records everything that is going on.


 
« Last Edit: 12:28:08, 21-09-2008 by trained-pianist » Logged
trained-pianist
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« Reply #57 on: 16:03:35, 21-09-2008 »

The paper is in Joyce Studies series, year 2004. The article is by Judith Harrington and is called "Suburban Tenor".
The authore writes that "Sirens" is the musical and emotional center of Ulysses. The episode opens with a stunning overture of sixty-three lines, constructed with very short phrases from characters or conversation in the episode along with abbreviated bits of song fragments and an array of percussive sound effects. For Sirens Joyce assigned the technique of a Fuga ad canonem, which is imprecise, since "Sirens" ignores the structural rules for a fugue, although the writing certainly takes flight. (The word fugue comes from the Italian for flight.)
Bowen has written that "Sirens" features some forty-seven songs: we'll only be able to look at a few of the songs. Bloom has gone to the Ormond hotel for an early meal - hoping to distract himself from thinking about Molly's four o'clock assignation with Blazes Boylan. However, Boylan startles Bloom by dropping into the Ormond Hotel Bar for a quick drink before continuing on to his appointment with Molly. Bowen and Knowles have each explored how canny Joyce can be. Simon Dedalus plays 'Good buy Sweetheart Good Buy' on the Ormond Hotel's bar-room piano - only while Boylan is there.
The article is about 37 pages long. It will take me a long time to understand the chapter Sirens with all distractions I have. 

I had no idea that Joyce had musical ambitions. Loigi Denza (composer and professor of singing) was impressed with Joyce's voice. Joyce took the third prize in Feis Ceoil competition because he refused to sight-read a third song. Palmieri offered Joyce three years of voice lessons in exchange for a percentage of future earnings. The offer was not accepted.
There are still Feic Ceoil competitions now. It is just becomes more and more fascinating for me.
« Last Edit: 16:16:53, 21-09-2008 by trained-pianist » Logged
harmonyharmony
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« Reply #58 on: 00:33:07, 22-09-2008 »

Joyce writes like if he is holding the camera and records everything that is going on.

I think it's important to remember that Joyce wants to give the impression that's what Bloom is doing.
In fact, Joyce is very careful what falls into his viewfinder while giving the impression that Bloom is recording everything.
Am I right in thinking that Joyce's son was a singer?
'Tenors get women by the score'
Ha.
« Last Edit: 08:46:21, 22-09-2008 by harmonyharmony » Logged

'is this all we can do?'
anonymous student of the University of Berkeley, California quoted in H. Draper, 'The new student revolt' (New York: Grove Press, 1965)
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trained-pianist
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« Reply #59 on: 07:10:53, 22-09-2008 »

I am not sure about Joyce's son being a tenor.  He also had a daughter.

Bloom eats his meal at the Ormond Hotel with Richie Goulding. Simon Dedalus' brother-in-low. Goulding talks obsessively about the tenor aria - Totto e Sciolta or All is lost now' from Bellini's La Sonnambula. (One of Joyce's poems is also titled 'Tutto e Sciolto'). In "Sirens", Goulding rattles on and on about Joe Maas' great rendishion of the Bellini aria. His aggravating one-song conversation finally annoys Bloom, who thinks Richie is failing.
The pretext for Boylan's visit to Molly is to bring her the up-coming concert program. She is scheduled to sing 'La ci darem la mano' from Mozart'sDon Giovanni with J C Doyle. (Joyce sang with Doyle at the Horse Show Concert in 1904). Molly is also to sing 'Love's Old Sweet Song,' whih runs through both Bloom's and Molly's minds all through Ulysses.
In Mozart's Don Giovanni Zarlina finds herself tempter. We can't help it but compare Zarlina and Masetto with Boylan, Molly and Bloom. Instead ot facing the implications of her affair, Bloom fixates over the promumciation and phrasing in La ci darem, which he characteristicaly has slightly wrong.
« Last Edit: 07:32:08, 22-09-2008 by trained-pianist » Logged
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