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Author Topic: Poetry Appreciation Thread.  (Read 19823 times)
Sydney Grew
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« Reply #420 on: 10:25:35, 27-01-2008 »

After Blake's death Wordsworth said  "There was no doubt that this poor man was mad, but there is something in the madness of this man which interests me more than the sanity of Lord Byron and Walter Scott."

In 1868 on the other hand Swinburne - an Englishman of the finest type as is at once evident from his photograph - said specifically of the Prophetic Books "We shall not again pause to rebut the familiar cry, to the effect that he was mad and not accountable for the uttermost madness of error. It must be enough to reply here that he was by no means mad, in any sense that would authorize us in rejecting his own judgment of his own aims and powers on a plea which would be held insufficient in another man's case. Let all readers and all critics get rid of that notion for good - clear their minds of it utterly and with all haste; let them know and remember, having once been told it, that in these strangest of all written books there is purpose as well as power, meaning as well as mystery. Doubtless, nothing quite like them was ever pitched out headlong into the world as they were. The confusion, the clamour, the jar of words that half suffice and thoughts that half exist - all these and other more absolutely offensive qualities - audacity, monotony, bombast, obscure play of licence and tortuous growth of fancy - cannot quench or even wholly conceal the living purport and the imperishable beauty which are here latent."

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Don Basilio
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Era solo un mio sospetto


« Reply #421 on: 12:54:59, 27-01-2008 »

I found this poem by Pope and I like it too, but Blake is very special for me.

You've beaten me to it, tp.  I was going to introduce Pope gently.

The passage is from his long philosophical poem The Essay on Man.  It is the only passage from the Essay that I can quote by heart, but I certainly can.  I find it very quotable.  Pope builds up a series of contrasts, but varies how he places them in the scheme of rhyming couplets (All Pope's poems are in this same metre with two rhyming lines of ten syllables.)  The stress falls in different places, but the effect of the muddle of life expressed in a highly formal poetic form builds up to the final wonderful "glory, jest and riddle."

Some think Pope is trite and unkind, but I hope there is a rueful humanity expressed here.
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
George Garnett
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« Reply #422 on: 18:57:59, 27-01-2008 »

We haven't had any Hardy for a little while so ...


In Time of 'The Breaking of Nations'

Only a man harrowing clods
In a slow silent walk
With an old horse that stumbles and nods
Half asleep as they stalk.

Only thin smoke without flame
From the heaps of couch-grass
Yet this will go onward the same
Though Dynasties pass.

Yonder a maid and her wight
Come whispering by:
War's annals will cloud into night
Ere their story die.
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trained-pianist
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« Reply #423 on: 19:59:09, 27-01-2008 »

That is very sad poem, George.  Cry  It is hopeless. We did come a long way as human race, but we still have wars. However, more and more people understand that this is not the way to go.
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time_is_now
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« Reply #424 on: 20:16:34, 27-01-2008 »

And, not quite Hardy but close-ish, here's something in Dorset dialect from the nineteenth century. It tells a heartbreaking story beautifully, if you have the patience to work out what's being said (it's admirably clear once you've tuned in to the dialect):


The turnèn stile, a-painted white,
do sheen by day an’ show by night.
Vor always there, as we did goo
to church, thik stile did let us drough,
wi’ spreadèn arms that wheeled to guide
us each in turn to t’other zide.
An’ vu’st ov all the train he took
my wife, wi’ winsome gait an’ look:
An’ then zent on my little maid,
a-skippèn onward, overjay’d
to reach ageän the pleäce o’ pride,
her comely mother’s left han’ zide.

An’ then, a-wheelèn roun’, he took
on me, ’ithin his third white nook.
An’ in the fourth, a sheäken wild,
he zent us on our giddy child.
But eesterday he guided slow
my downcast Jenny, vull o’ woe,
an’ then my little maid in black,
a-walkèn softly on her track.
An’ after he’d a-turned ageän
to let me goo along the leäne,
he had noo little bwoy to vill
his last white eärms, an’ they stood still.

From The Turnen Stile
William Barnes (1801-1886)
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
Don Basilio
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Era solo un mio sospetto


« Reply #425 on: 21:02:16, 27-01-2008 »

Barnes' statue is in the High Street in Dorchester (the original of Hardy's Casterbridge.)  I can remember looking at it when my dad was driving us up when I was small from Devon to civilization.

Dorchester is an odd town.  It is a county town, definitely not a city, but no quaint character.  About ten years ago they put in a by-pass, so there is no need to drive the whole length of the High Street to pass through.

Barnes provided the words to Vaughan Williams' beautiful song Linden Lea.
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
trained-pianist
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« Reply #426 on: 21:35:06, 27-01-2008 »

Barnes poem is very difficult for me. It is frustrating. I am trying to understand it.
At first I could not understand anything. Then I understood a few lines and I did not make any progress on the meaning.

It is about white door in church? The door let them go to the other side. I don't get it with the train. But I think his family died.
Can you tell me if I am close to the meaning.
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Don Basilio
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Era solo un mio sospetto


« Reply #427 on: 21:39:59, 27-01-2008 »

tp the Barnes poem is written in an approximation to a West Country accent.  I was born in the West Country about fifty miles away.  I find it difficult to manage as well.  I'd stick to Wordsworth.  Or Pope.  I'll come up with more examples in the next few days.
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
trained-pianist
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Posts: 5455



« Reply #428 on: 21:53:46, 27-01-2008 »

Thank you don Basilio. I like to read more Wordsworth and Pope.

Barnes is using many words I don't  know. I was looking in the dictionary to find out some of the words. May be it is very sad poem. For some reason I think it is very sad. I have an image of a church where one is brought for baptism and then for the last mass through turning door.

It looks like he is standing in front of a church.
« Last Edit: 15:30:13, 28-01-2008 by trained-pianist » Logged
time_is_now
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« Reply #429 on: 22:46:28, 27-01-2008 »

t-p, It took me a long time to understand this poem too, so don't worry!

A turnstile (or 'turnen stile', as Barnes calls it) is a kind of rotating gate, usually in the fence of a field so that people can walk through the fence but so that animals can't escape from the field. I assume that the family in the poem live in the country, and they have to walk through a field to go to church every week. The turnstile that they pass through is painted white.

There are four members of the family, and the poem describes how they pass through the stile, one after the other - first the mother, then the daughter, then the father (who is the speaker of the poem), then the young son.

But yesterday, says the father, only three of them passed through: mother (looking sad, or 'downcast'), daughter (wearing black), father, then it stood still. The boy has died. You're right, it's a sad poem, but it's very beautiful.

The 'train' confused me too at first, but I think 'all the train' is an old-fashioned way of saying 'all of us' (or 'all of them'). You can ignore that word. 'Vu'st of all the train' just means 'First of the people walking through the gate'.
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
trained-pianist
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Posts: 5455



« Reply #430 on: 22:58:33, 27-01-2008 »

Thank you t-i-n. I don't know Barnes's biography. May be this poem is autobiographical.

I will look at poem again tomorrow.
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George Garnett
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« Reply #431 on: 23:12:25, 27-01-2008 »

That Barnes poem is very beautifully done. Thanks for that, t-i-n.

This isn't quite in the same league but I thought I might include it as one where the outcome, at least for now, is a happier one.


The Thread

Jamie made his landing in the world
so hard he ploughed straight back into the earth.
They caught him by the thread of his one breath
and pulled him up. They don't know how it held.
And so today I thank what higher will
brought us to here, to you and me and Russ,
the great twin-engined swaying wingspan of us
roaring down the back of Kirrie Hill

and your two-year-old lungs somehow out-revving
every engine in the universe.
All that trouble just to turn up dead
was all I thought that long week. Now the thread
is holding all of us: look at our tiny house,
son, the white dot of your mother waving.


Don Paterson
« Last Edit: 00:32:23, 28-01-2008 by George Garnett » Logged
trained-pianist
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« Reply #432 on: 09:08:59, 28-01-2008 »

This morning Barnes poem did not present much trouble. I read it and it was clear and beautiful.

Now we are back to our time with Don Paterson (born 1963).
I understand that he is grateful to the higher will that for bringing us here and sustaining us. May be poetry should not be completely understood, but sort of guessed.

Thank you George for the poem. It is one thing to just read it, and the other is to imagine deep and strong Scot's way of saying it.

« Last Edit: 13:12:56, 28-01-2008 by trained-pianist » Logged
Daniel
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« Reply #433 on: 12:40:49, 28-01-2008 »

May be poetry should not be completely understood, but sort of guessed.

That's poetry in itself.

Thankyou to all others too for a thread that sometimes just glows.
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Don Basilio
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Era solo un mio sospetto


« Reply #434 on: 14:30:17, 28-01-2008 »

It looks like he is standing in front of a church.

That is on the High Street in Dorchester, and as I say when my father used to drive us from Devon up to Southampton in those days before the Dorchester by-pass we drove straight though Dorchester past the statue.  Dorchester High Street is a dead straight road which in those days was also the main West-East road.  I think Hardy is buried in a village just East of Dorchester.
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
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